Contemplating Josephite marriage

[katherineH]

Hello adhoc!

I was very interested in this topic a couple of years ago and remembered reading something about Josephite marriages usually occurring among older couples (that have already been married for a while, usually with grown children), and who then choose to forgo sexual intimacy as a sacrifice, i.e. as a form of fasting for the attainment of a higher good.  So the abstinence isn't a "no" to sex per se, but a "yes" to something else (which is, in essence, what chastity is all about).  I think that any kind of decision must include this aspect: what are you trying to achieve through a Josephite marriage? How is this going to contribute to increased holiness among the two of you? What are you fasting for exactly? 

Thanks for sharing! 

K. 

[Ice_nine]

I moved this to open mic because 1) I believe in fascism and 2) As far as I understand the vocation station is for religious vocations, not marriage. The latter can either go here or on RSH if it gets too frisky.

[adhoc]

Thank you. Makes sense.

> what are you trying to achieve through a Josephite marriage?

 

A blessing to successfully adopt kids. We've had so much 'activity' in the last 4 years to be enough for a lifetime and all of it fruitless.  So I don't know what to do - keep doing what we have been doing or try something new. It has not been much more than self-gratification to be brutally honest.  Does anyone really think about higher truths in the world when engaging in such activity.

Maybe the 'Josephite' concept is a stupid idea and a bargain with God. I don't think it's going to work. If I do this, maybe God will do that. My companionship suggested to me we limit the frequency and I have done that, to just once per month. And it has been helpful, I have began to see the world in a different light.  It's an amazing change that happens when you are not engaged in constant intercourse or the dreaded M word. You see the world in a different color. I can only wonder what happens when you begin to live the life full-time. She wants to adopt, I support her. 

I am almost 43, so I don't know if that's old or not. I have one child  from a previous engagement, she has none. 

I think the situation in my case, I still have  drive and I imagine so does she. So when you limit your access to sexuality, you actually invigorate your marriage instead of rapidly burning out.  In my case, and YMMV, the key is to have ongoing desire and not act upon it every single time. A priest said to establish a frequency and gradually lower it as you get older. It all might be a moot point if you hit 50 and turn impotent or something.

I also hope this will help me in my fight with gluttony. Different words, same tune. An almost identical struggle.  

 

Edit: At this point, I let my significant other make this determination, if she ever decides to fully embrace the Josephite marriage paradigm, I will fully support her and this will in no way diminish my feelings for her, only enhance them.  This model works for me, thus far she makes key decisions and it has worked better than the converse. 

 

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that these posts are not trolling, but I am seriously concerned for you. 

First of all, if you are a devout enough Catholic that you are contemplating Josephite marriage, why are you having premarital sex at all? If you have been with this woman for four years, why haven't you married?

There is nothing uncommon about still having a sex drive in your 40's. And, if you still have a sex drive in your 40's, it's not likely to suddenly disappear in your 50's. But, if you have a partner with a low to zero sex drive, that has the makings of a recipe for disaster in marriage. Sure, sometimes people find themselves in this situation after being married for awhile and they have to learn to cope, but starting a marriage with this kind of problem isn't a good idea. Marriage is tough enough as it is.

Of course, priests, nuns, consecrated virgins, etc. all take vows of celibacy, but they also don't share a bed (or at least a house or, at minimum, a romantic relationship) with a person to whom they are sexually attracted. Plus, people who have taken a vow of celibacy don't necessarily lose their sex drive--it is not an easy road. I assume that people who have taken a vow of celibacy do their best to stay away from sexual temptation which is not what you're doing.

I also think it is irrational thinking to expect that God will reward you with adoption if you give up having sex. I don't think God's gifts and graces work that way.

Perhaps in addition to a priest, you need a professional marriage counselor. (You don't need to be married to see a marriage counselor.) There might be psychological reasons for your partner's lack of sex drive that can be professionally treated.

Also, does your partner have a good OB/GYN? Do you KNOW she cannot bear children (or is that simply because you have been having sex for four years without getting pregnant)? A lack of sex drive can be a symptom of all kinds of disorders and may well be treatable. There may be hormonal factors at work. Also, many common drugs can cause lack of sex drive.

In any case, your situation is really too complex for any of us here to be of real help, except, of course, to pray for you and your partner, which of course we will do.

Edited September 22, 2015 by IgnatiusofLoyola

[Nihil Obstat]

I am also concerned by what seems to be implied in this thread - that pre/extra-marital sexual activity has been regular and consistent for at least several years. This situation should be sorted out before anything else is contemplated. If chastity has not been a priority through several years of being unmarried, then chastity within marriage, whether it be Josephite or not, seems like a bit of a tall order.
By the way, celibacy and chastity are not synonymous. We are all called to chastity, no matter our state in life. We are not all called to celibacy. Chastity for a married couple entails a prohibition of sexual intimacy. For a married couple, chastity can include sexual intimacy.

[CatherineM]

As to adoption. We were in our 50's when we started taking in kids. Older ones, not infants. Needy, special needs kids, but no one cares how old we were. 

[Ice_nine]

 Chastity for a married couple entails a prohibition of sexual intimacy.

whoops.

Fix yo semantics

[Nihil Obstat]

 

whoops.

Fix yo semantics

Hm. I am not seeing it. Ambiguous euphemism?

[Maggyie]

Nm. Wrong!

Edited September 23, 2015 by Maggyie

[Amppax]

 

Hm. I am not seeing it. Ambiguous euphemism?

You said "chastity for a married couple includes a prohibition of sexual intimacy." Pretty sure you meant unmarried. 

[Nihil Obstat]

You said "chastity for a married couple includes a prohibition of sexual intimacy." Pretty sure you meant unmarried. 

Lol, geez. I must be getting tired. Yes, that is what I meant.  

[Ice_nine]

wow dude. Go home. You're drunk.

[veritasluxmea]

this is like a really tame version of one of those CA question threads 

[Nihil Obstat]

wow dude. Go home. You're drunk.

[blazeingstar]

So....I really don't see the whole need for a Josephite marriage in your case.  Lack of sexual drive is simply a stuuuuupid idea for that.  Sex drive changes on a daily basis.  Being sick or getting good news or super hot weather or super cold weather can completely change how either my husband or I feel.

I'd also like to address your concern over God rewarding you for sexual self control.  God isn't anti-sex.  He dosn't reward a single person for sexual self-control.  He rewards them for living their vocation.  If sexual self-control is part of that vocation then God rewards it as as secondary benefit.  This means 100% self control for those in single and religious vocations and still a fair amount of sexual self-control for those in married vocations. 

As far as children.  Given through sex or through adoption, God still has His hand in this.  If you're American, I'd deeply encourage you to look at 2 things as far as adoption.  The first being adopting a child/children in a family unit, or with special needs or over the age of 7.  The second would be to consider paper adoption--sponsoring a child--so that that child can grow up and live in his country of origin.  There are no shortage of those children.