from a catholic piont of view, because of healthcare, on balance obama as president was a good thing

[blazeingstar]

I do not think if that is right. If a person does not have insurance, doctors will provide a price that they will charge for a medical service, if it is paid directly by the patient in cash instead of being submitted for payment through insurance. That price is usually not discussed if the patient has insurance, because that price will almost always be higher than the deductible that the insured person will have to pay for the procedure if it is submitted though insurance. If a person has insurance there is simply no need for him to know that information, becuase it will almost always be more economical for him to have insurance cover it.

But I do not see any logical reason why any of the benefits you proposed would flow from posting a "cash" price in a market that does not exist. It is not as though doctors are going to accept less money from a private individual than from an insurance company. If you look into it you will see that the opposite is almost always true. If a doctor receives XYZ amount of money for a procedure from an insurance company, the doctor will charge 2 or 3 times more than that if the procedure is paid for directly without using insurance. That is because an individual does not have the type of negotiating power to keep the price down that a large insurance company does.

But let's say that a hospital would receive $20,000 though insurance formedical procedure ABC, but then posts on its website that it would be willing to perform the same procedure for $50,000 if the a patient pays for it in cash. How exactly is that supposed to lead to "unnecessary tests drop, we'd see better tests develop.  We'd see a bigger generic prescription market and more encouragement of medical innovation"?

That sounds like a bit of a pipe dream. I don't see any reason for that to occur just by posting a price in a market that largely does not exist due to the existence of insurance companies.

I'm not saying do away with insurance, simply do away with secret pricing.  If I have a broken arm and I know my insurance has a 10% co-pay and I go to get my cast off, I'm going to choose the doctor who is charging $50 to get my cast off and not $200, even if my insurance covers 90%.  People don't even know that they may be paying more even with their same insurance. 

Pricing upfront encourages people to be smart about their choices.

The medical field is already discovering that there are better ways and less expensive ways to test.  With dr's malpractice insurance sky high they are being taught new ways to ensure that their bottom line can be met.

It's not that the insurance companies are completely at fault, it's that we have given our idea of healthcare completely over to insurance with nary a thought about what's actually going on.

And actually, many people before Oboma care were going the cash route for minor care and had a catastrophic policy for major illnesses.  They often got care for much, much cheaper than what is billed to insurance.

[dairygirl4u2c]

the biggest reason we spend so much and other countries so little while getting better results, is because they negotiate with medical providers like those who provide hip replacements. the government says make them good and make them cheap and you will be our primary provider. 

another big reason is because insurance is a middle man who serves no purpose but to take a cut for profit and administrative costs. single payer type countires, or those that are highly regulated with private insurance, do not have that. 

we spend seventeen percent of our GDP on health care other counties who coverall with better quality pay less at ten percent. the biggest two reasons are above. there are surely more reaons and ways to save money.

[StMichael]

The government is not the church and the president is not our shepard.

God has provided for us to provide for ourselves, not as a collective.

This healthcare law must be repealed.

Nothing of it has done any good except put the government in-between doctor and patient. Furthermore, it is UNCONSTITUTIONAL. The Constitution, while torn to shreds over the last 100 years, has no provision that forces a citizen to participate in the marketplace against their will. 

 

[Peace]

God has provided for us to provide for ourselves, not as a collective.

 

I. THE UNIVERSAL DESTINATION AND THE PRIVATE OWNERSHIP OF GOODS

2402 In the beginning God entrusted the earth and its resources to the common stewardship of mankind to take care of them, master them by labor, and enjoy their fruits.¹⁸⁷ The goods of creation are destined for the whole human race. However, the earth is divided up among men to assure the security of their lives, endangered by poverty and threatened by violence. The appropriation of property is legitimate for guaranteeing the freedom and dignity of persons and for helping each of them to meet his basic needs and the needs of those in his charge. It should allow for a natural solidarity to develop between men.

2403 The right to private property, acquired or received in a just way, does not do away with the original gift of the earth to the whole of mankind. The universal destination of goods remains primordial, even if the promotion of the common good requires respect for the right to private property and its exercise.

2404 "In his use of things man should regard the external goods he legitimately owns not merely as exclusive to himself but common to others also, in the sense that they can benefit others as well as himself."¹⁸⁸ The ownership of any property makes its holder a steward of Providence, with the task of making it fruitful and communicating its benefits to others, first of all his family.

[blazeingstar]

the biggest reason we spend so much and other countries so little while getting better results, is because they negotiate with medical providers like those who provide hip replacements. the government says make them good and make them cheap and you will be our primary provider. 

another big reason is because insurance is a middle man who serves no purpose but to take a cut for profit and administrative costs. single payer type countires, or those that are highly regulated with private insurance, do not have that. 

we spend seventeen percent of our GDP on health care other counties who coverall with better quality pay less at ten percent. the biggest two reasons are above. there are surely more reaons and ways to save money.

The problem is Obama "Care" is NOT a single payer system, it's a glut of insurance companies.  The healthcare mandate did not help one single person get "care" it helped them get insurance.  Expensive insurance.  Even by your own words insurance is not ideal.

[Winchester]

"Blessed are those who use threats of violence to create bureaucracies that will enrich insurance companies"--Jesus