Too young to wed

[NadaTeTurbe]

http://tooyoungtowed.org/#/explore

it's an heartbreaking project about the marriage of children. 

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

I think in the holy roman catholic church we are to not wed until we are 18 nor join orders till that age therefore are not to have sex till 18 unless there is some kind of special allowances which are rare as far as i can tell. I think it is detrimental to a womans development mentally, emotionally, physically and spiritually if they have sex before the age of minimum 16, and plus most women aren't absolutely fully developed physically breast wise and genitalia plus over all and perhaps the womb also until between the ages of 16-18 and some even later at 21 and i assume that is why the holy roman catholic church sets its bar at 18 to leave no one a astray. I could be incorrect and my developmental bar is only based on wisdom which is perhaps simply my own misgivings, and yes there are the rare few woman that are almost fully developed in the genitalia and breast department between 14-15 but height and weight and perhaps the womb aren't and definitely no where near developed enough under 14. And than there is the emotional development that some say isn't cemented till between 21 and 26. Perhaps 21+ should be the age for consent. I don't know. And hey this should be in the adults only room shouldn't it? Or did i just make it adults only when it isn't meant to be, sorry if i did that please forgive and delete my post. 

[AveMariaPurissima]

I think in the holy roman catholic church we are to not wed until we are 18 nor join orders till that age therefore are not to have sex till 18 unless there is some kind of special allowances which are rare as far as i can tell. I think it is detrimental to a womans development mentally, emotionally, physically and spiritually if they have sex before the age of minimum 16, and plus most women aren't absolutely fully developed physically breast wise and genitalia plus over all and perhaps the womb also until between the ages of 16-18 and some even later at 21 and i assume that is why the holy roman catholic church sets its bar at 18 to leave no one a astray. I could be incorrect and my developmental bar is only based on wisdom which is perhaps simply my own misgivings, and yes there are the rare few woman that are almost fully developed in the genitalia and breast department between 14-15 but height and weight and perhaps the womb aren't and definitely no where near developed enough under 14. And than there is the emotional development that some say isn't cemented till between 21 and 26. Perhaps 21+ should be the age for consent. I don't know. And hey this should be in the adults only room shouldn't it? Or did i just make it adults only when it isn't meant to be, sorry if i did that please forgive and delete my post. 

For clarification/accuracy, the age requirements for marriage in Canon Law are much lower:

Can.  1083 §1. A man before he has completed his sixteenth year of age and a woman before she has completed her fourteenth year of age cannot enter into a valid marriage.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P3Y.HTM

Not saying I think getting married that young is a good idea -- I don't think so at all. And what Nada posted about is just sad. Kyrie Eleison.

[truthfinder]

My former parish priest said that while these are indeed the canonical ages, the pastor has an obligation to follow the civil marriage ages as well as encourage the couple to wait until they were older to marry (I'm assuming that this would help prove the maturity in their decision and help avoid contracting an invalid marriage)

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

why than can you not go into holy orders until 18. Print the rest of the page for this law or other laws relating to them and whats the bet that is the youngest we will go, and only allowed in extreme circumstances. If not i'm scratching my head right now as to if one is ready for the sacrament of marriage than why isn't one ready to begin holy orders. And with that canon law i was lead to believe canon law changes from country to country, though in general it is the same but depending on the culture there can be some dramatic differences. Anyhow these are just my thoughts and will accept what the universal magesterium teaches, is canon law from the universal magesterium or is it from the ordinary magesterium, or is it a bit of both depending on what country your in and if it is a bit of both which country is this canon law for? I know nothing i could be way off the point with the whole canon law thing, let me know if i am coz i'm only just starting to feel my way around sacred tradition.

[blazeingstar]

why than can you not go into holy orders until 18. Print the rest of the page for this law or other laws relating to them and whats the bet that is the youngest we will go, and only allowed in extreme circumstances. If not i'm scratching my head right now as to if one is ready for the sacrament of marriage than why isn't one ready to begin holy orders. And with that canon law i was lead to believe canon law changes from country to country, though in general it is the same but depending on the culture there can be some dramatic differences. Anyhow these are just my thoughts and will accept what the universal magesterium teaches, is canon law from the universal magesterium or is it from the ordinary magesterium, or is it a bit of both depending on what country your in and if it is a bit of both which country is this canon law for? I know nothing i could be way off the point with the whole canon law thing, let me know if i am coz i'm only just starting to feel my way around sacred tradition.

Well, for one, many young men begin training for Holy Orders through Junior Seminaries that allow students as young as 14 to go to a seminary high school.  Priesthood is a very complex vocation because it requires a tremendous amount of education.  There are convents and monistaries which allow young girls and boys to visit until they reach the age of majority in their country and then profess vows.  In some countries this is 16, in others 18 and in some 19.  

Remember there are still a number of US states that allow marriage to girls as young as 14 and boys as young as 16, however they could not legally sign a contract in that same state.

We also should remember that until about 100 years ago, fertility, not maturity, was a big part in decisions about marriage and relationships and highschool was considered an optional higher education in many countries.  However, the vocation of priesthood makes education necessary.  The reason you can be a brother at a younger age is because for centuries it was considered the vocation of the less educated...atleast according to the Vincentians that I knew.

[Basilisa Marie]

Adding to what blazingstar said, we also have to remember that the Church is universal and not just geared toward North American or European sensibilities. In some cultures it's not weird for people to get married young. Marriage is an ancient, natural right and one of the strongest rights a person has. No one has a right to be ordained. It used to be that people got married  younger, especially once women hit puberty. But now in America it's weird if people get married before their 21st birthday. And like truthfinder said, it's true that although 16 and 14 are the Church's bare minimums, you're also obligated to follow the civil laws where you live. 

 

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

I know little to nothing of the U.S blazeingstar. Still all my questions weren't answered, but that is ok perhaps some others can, i need further clarity on all my other questions.

Edited September 21, 2015 by Tab'le De'Bah-Rye

[blazeingstar]

I know little to nothing of the U.S blazeingstar. Still all my questions weren't answered, but that is ok perhaps some others can, i need further clarity on all my other questions.

I answered your question. 

Why can't you get holy orders until 18? 

Because Holy Orders require education which the vocation to marriage does not.  One can be fully received into other vocations of religious life at practically any age.  As monasteries and convents follow the rules on the age of majority, this can differ by country.  Some say that you are fully an adult at age 16, but something like 90% of the rest declare that it's 18 or 19.  Canada is a fun example.  If you went to a convent in British Columbia you could enter at 18, but in Alberta you'd have to be 19. 

Those who would like to seek Holy Orders at a young age can do so after middle school.  Modern holy orders require the equivliant of a Master's degree, so most Holy Orders can't even begin to start until after the completion of high school.  There are formation high schools.

Those seeking marriage have no natural impediments to marriage.  You can have any level of education and have a reasonable chance of being able to commit yourself to marriage.  I'm not suggesting that 14yo's and 16yo's drop out of school and get married, however, in more 3rd world places--Africa, South America, etc, young people can reasonably have a trade and provide by the age of 16 or 17.  This is not true in industrial countries where one may not be able to provide until their early 20's.  However, just because culture change has happened doesn't mean that there has been an ontological change in marriage. It is still possible for a young person to make the decision to marry at a young age, but because of education requirements it's not possible for one to make vow to priesthood.  Here, education and capability for learning, are huge parts of the vocation.  A priest cannot be a priest if he doesn't understand theology.  Lack of knowledge is an impediment to priesthood.  However a man can still be a farmer or a barber or a tradesman without education and can marry.

. I could be incorrect and my developmental bar is only based on wisdom which is perhaps simply my own misgivings, and yes there are the rare few woman that are almost fully developed in the genitalia and breast department between 14-15 but height and weight and perhaps the womb aren't and definitely no where near developed enough under 14. And than there is the emotional development that some say isn't cemented till between 21 and 26. Perhaps 21+ should be the age for consent. I don't know. And hey this should be in the adults only room shouldn't it? Or did i just make it adults only when it isn't meant to be, sorry if i did that please forgive and delete my post. 

I wanted to address this last bit of the post, too.  Physically, the body does continue to develop but the womb of women is ready for children around the age of 14/15.  It was much safer in ages past for a young woman in her teens or early 20's to have a child than it was for someone in their late 20's or 30's.  With the advent of modern medicine we've made older births much safer, but that doesn't change physiological realities.  Women who have pregnancy in their late teens and early 20's tend to have much easier pregnancies and recover faster despite modern medicine and making it safe.  I am not advocating young people having children by this, but I do want to highlight a reality.

While the prefrontal cortex isn't fully developed until around 25, there are many studies that show personality and morals are more or less in place by the age of 7---co-inciding with the Catholic Church's declaration of age of reason.  Between the age of 7 and 25 there's a lot of maturity, but one can have reasonably mature decisions from the average 16-18yo.  Remember we put cars in the hands of 16yo's and much of our ideas over age are social constructs.  There's nothing wrong with not being "fully" mature when making a decision and there's absolutely nothing wrong with growing up together.  In the scheme of things it may be better for two people to develop mentally together, rather than fall into the influences of other people.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

You answered one of my questions and i said thankyou for that, you did not answer all my questions and nor do you have to. And why was i led to believe that teenage pregnancies are actually the more dangerous and that many young women i.e teenagers used to die giving birth.  Where do you get your information from, remembering the world is run by satan and most of them to varying degrees are liers, cheats and thieves. Your information if it is from sources outside of the holy magesterium could be utter bollocks as could mine. And please post the document from the universal magesterium that states that the age of reason is 7, the age of confirmation in my country is 12 in accordance i assume with holy scripture when Jesus was found in the temple and made the choice with free will to part from his parents absolute guidance and make his own decision.

 You answered nothing of my other queries including about canon law. Is canon law an infallible matter of faith and morals, and does it vary from country to country, i know the age of confirmation does.

[blazeingstar]

You answered one of my questions and i said thankyou for that, you did not answer all my questions and nor do you have to. And why was i led to believe that teenage pregnancies are actually the more dangerous and that many young women i.e teenagers used to die giving birth.  Where do you get your information from, remembering the world is run by satan and most of them to varying degrees are liers, cheats and thieves. Your information if it is from sources outside of the holy magesterium could be utter bollocks as could mine. And please post the document from the universal magesterium that states that the age of reason is 7, the age of confirmation in my country is 12 in accordance i assume with holy scripture when Jesus was found in the temple and made the choice with free will to part from his parents absolute guidance and make his own decision.

 You answered nothing of my other queries including about canon law. Is canon law an infallible matter of faith and morals, and does it vary from country to country, i know the age of confirmation does.

In developing countries and throughout history every woman--regardless of age--could die during birth.  People especially mourned the very young, but it's not exactly more dangerous.  If you want non-medical data (besides the fact that more complications occur as a woman ages, not less) then just take a look at the fact that Mary had Jesus between the age of 14 and 16.  Surely God wouldn't of done something to her that would kill her and wouldn't of done something that He didn't condone occurring with other women.

The CCC has to be followed by Catholics everywhere, but age of Confirmation is decided by the bishop.  In America it's usually during the 8th or 10th year of education regardless of age.  Confirmation age is very subjective based on the country one is from, and the CCC allows for that.

I'm not sure if Cannon law is considered "infalible" but we are certainly required to adhere to it wilst we live in a country or diocese.  I once worked and worshiped in a diocese where X feast day was not a holy day of obligation.  But my residency was on the very edge of where it was.  I spoke to very sound priests on both sides of the boarder, and both said that I was free of obligation since it would be impossible to attend in my dioceses and there were no services in the dioceses that I could attend based on my work schedule.  In the eyes of the church I "broke" the law.  But when it comes to pastoral decisions, such as age of sacraments there's alot of room.

Age of reason

"After careful deliberation on all these points, this Sacred Congregation of the Discipline of the Sacraments, in a general meeting held on July 15, 1910, in order to remove the above-mentioned abuses and to bring about that children even from their tender years may be united to Jesus Christ, may live His life, and obtain protection from all danger of corruption, has deemed it needful to prescribe the following rules which are to be observed everywhere for the First Communion of children.

1. The age of discretion, both for Confession and for Holy Communion, is the time when a child begins to reason, that is about the seventh year, more or less. From that time on begins the obligation of fulfilling the precept of both Confession and Communion.

2. A full and perfect knowledge of Christian doctrine is not necessary either for First Confession or for First Communion. Afterwards, however, the child will be obliged to learn gradually the entire Catechism according to his ability.

3. The knowledge of religion which is required in a child in order to be properly prepared to receive First Communion is such that he will understand according to his capacity those Mysteries of faith which are necessary as a means of salvation (necessitate medii) and that he can distinguish between the Bread of the Eucharist and ordinary, material bread, and thus he may receive Holy Communion with a devotion becoming his years.

4. The obligation of the precept of Confession and Communion which binds the child particularly affects those who have him in charge, namely, parents, confessor, teachers and the pastor. It belongs to the father, or the person taking his place, and to the confessor, according to the Roman Catechism, to admit a child to his First Communion."

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

This is a document from the universal magesterium, if yes i have to accept it as being the word of God? If not i tenderly have to scrutinize it pray, meditate, examine my mind and compare it to sacred scripture to find out whether i take it as an infallible statement from the holy spirit.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

Final final thing for me to say before i leave for however long that i felt must be said.

After careful examination i came to the conclusion that The holy mother was blessed amongst all woman, i truly believe her having jesus at 14 was an exception to the rule not the rule, i truly believe she was mature beyond her years,mentally, emotionally, physically and spiritually. Again i think that holy mother church allows weddings at 14 for those that are an exception to the rule and not everyone in general rule.

Anyhow, see yuz. 

GodblesS

Onward christian souls.

P.s. I better do a disclaimer again for all to see. Everything i say is not infallible and perhaps not even in line with the teaching of the holy magesterium, i may be right i may be wrong but in all honesty with the light of faith and reason and the grace of God i try my best to illuminate the truth to the best of my knowledge and understanding of what truth is. 

[blazeingstar]

Final final thing for me to say before i leave for however long that i felt must be said.

After careful examination i came to the conclusion that The holy mother was blessed amongst all woman, i truly believe her having jesus at 14 was an exception to the rule not the rule, i truly believe she was mature beyond her years,mentally, emotionally, physically and spiritually. Again i think that holy mother church allows weddings at 14 for those that are an exception to the rule and not everyone in general rule.

Anyhow, see yuz. 

GodblesS

Onward christian souls.

P.s. I better do a disclaimer again for all to see. Everything i say is not infallible and perhaps not even in line with the teaching of the holy magesterium, i may be right i may be wrong but in all honesty with the light of faith and reason and the grace of God i try my best to illuminate the truth to the best of my knowledge and understanding of what truth is. 

Well, I don't think that your conclusion is quite correct.  God never acts out of the ordinary, and it is quite clear that Jesus' little trist to the temple was not well looked upon because of His age, and that many people rejected Him becuase they knew Him in Childhood.  Mary wasn't even Jesus so we can assume that besides sinlessness Mary didn't have any sort of extra physical maturity.  To say that 14-16yo Mary was a special case is ridiculous though.  God isn't going to make an example of something He doesn't want followed.  Now, in our modern society where people live to 80 and not 40, where youth lasts longer, teenage pregnancy and marriage probably isn't the best idea...but the body is created to function that way.  There are still countries today where the average life expectancy is 40, so in those societies marriage at 14/15 seems very acceptable.  That is also with the caveat that they are marrying persons who do not have a significant age difference over them, as with the OP's post.  There's a huge difference between the young making a live commitment and someone who is older taking advantage of a teen.

Here's my last comment on this. Woman's fertility begins to decline after age 25, at 30 fertility takes a nosedive and being pregnant at any age over 35 is considered "advanced maternal age" and comes with a lot of risk.  We can assume since God often speaks of "Going forth and multiplying" that we are created to have many children.  Through the CCC we learn that we can use science to space children...which starting after fertility declines would severely limit this. 

This is a document from the universal magesterium, if yes i have to accept it as being the word of God? If not i tenderly have to scrutinize it pray, meditate, examine my mind and compare it to sacred scripture to find out whether i take it as an infallible statement from the holy spirit.

It's part of a council, it's held in high esteem but I do not believe it's considered infallible.  It would however, carry Nihil Obstat and Imprimatur meaning that it is not teaching anything that is contradicted by the faith.