CrossCuT Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Humans of New York is doing special coverage on the Syrian Refugees. I recommend everyone to read them and realize the humanity in these people that the media would like to strip from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bardegaulois Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Humans of New York is doing special coverage on the Syrian Refugees. I recommend everyone to read them and realize the humanity in these people that the media would like to strip from them. So, are you arguing that to deny entry to migrants is to strip them of their humanity? That's binary thinking (again, of the type so generally promoted by the media) if I've ever heard it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrossCuT Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 So, are you arguing that to deny entry to migrants is to strip them of their humanity? That's binary thinking (again, of the type so generally promoted by the media) if I've ever heard it. It would be binary thinking if that in any way is what I said. My husband and I sold everything we had to afford the journey. We worked 15 hours a day in Turkey until we had enough money to leave. The smuggler put 152 of us on a boat. Once we saw the boat, many of us wanted to go back, but he told us that anyone who turned back would not get a refund. We had no choice. Both the lower compartment and the deck were filled with people. Waves began to come into the boat so the captain told everyone to throw their baggage into the sea. In the ocean we hit a rock, but the captain told us not to worry. Water began to come into the boat, but again he told us not to worry. We were in the lower compartment and it began to fill with water. It was too tight to move. Everyone began to scream. We were the last ones to get out alive. My husband pulled me out of the window. In the ocean, he took off his life jacket and gave it to a woman. We swam for as long as possible. After several hours he told me he that he was too tired to swim and that he was going to float on his back and rest. It was so dark we could not see. The waves were high. I could hear him calling me but he got further and further away. Eventually a boat found me. They never found my husband. (Kos, Greece) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bardegaulois Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 It would be binary thinking if that in any way is what I said. That's why I'm asking you if that is what you are trying to get at, because such can easily be inferred from your statement. And then you go on to present precisely what made me opine here in the first place: "The media loves to show us photographs of families with young children with sob stories about the war..." Well, if you want to promote a politics based on sentimentality, go ahead, but if even the First VP of the European Commission, and organization for which I have little love, is warning of exactly what you might be trying to avoid at the end of this (http://news.nationalpost.com/news/world/if-europe-doesnt-close-its-doors-to-failed-migrants-extremist-right-wing-parties-will-gain-support-eu-official-warns), I'd think you'd do better to be a little more circumspect about the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrossCuT Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 That's why I'm asking you if that is what you are trying to get at, because such can easily be inferred from your statement. And then you go on to present precisely what made me opine here in the first place: "The media loves to show us photographs of families with young children with sob stories about the war..." Well, if you want to promote a politics based on sentimentality, go ahead, but if even the First VP of the European Commission, and organization for which I have little love, is warning of exactly what you might be trying to avoid at the end of this (http://news.nationalpost.com/news/world/if-europe-doesnt-close-its-doors-to-failed-migrants-extremist-right-wing-parties-will-gain-support-eu-official-warns), I'd think you'd do better to be a little more circumspect about the situation. Sob stories? This is their life. This is the poo they are going through because somehow, politics > humans. Im gonna say something extreme...Im gonna say something that will blow your mind. PEOPLE > POLITICS/Borders/Money. These are human beings man, bro, skippy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicansoul Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Sob stories? This is their life. This is the poo they are going through because somehow, politics > humans. Im gonna say something extreme...Im gonna say something that will blow your mind. PEOPLE > POLITICS/Borders/Money. These are human beings man, bro, skippy. so are the unborn but peeps like you always vote against their chance to live...for political reasons mind you... This is happening because of our sins. Our Lady of Fatima warned us 100 years ago that sin cause wars. she didn't say politics... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bardegaulois Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Sob stories? This is their life. This is the poo they are going through because somehow, politics > humans. Im gonna say something extreme...Im gonna say something that will blow your mind. PEOPLE > POLITICS/Borders/Money. These are human beings man, bro, skippy. Nice slogan. Did you learn it at the Bernie Sanders rally? Or the Jeremy Corbyn one? And that is why you should be donating to Caritas or to the ICRC, as I am pleased to do on occasion. Yes, these are human beings (and I'm neither a bro nor a skippy, by the way), and they have a right to their homeland, just as I have a right to mine, and you to yours. They do not have a right to my homeland, just as I have no right to theirs. You're thinking about an easy solution, as the press wants to lead people to do, which will lead to only more suffering over a much broader range of humanity in the long run. That militates against one of our most precious cardinal virtues, prudence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selah Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little2add Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Russia is setting up a military base and bringing into Syria heavy artillery, China arrived today with a state of the art aircraft carrier theirs going to be a showdown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrossCuT Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 so are the unborn but peeps like you always vote against their chance to live...for political reasons mind you... This is happening because of our sins. Our Lady of Fatima warned us 100 years ago that sin cause wars. she didn't say politics... Im not going to debate you on abortion here, Id love to in another thread if youd like to start it. But if you call yourself prolife, prove it. Show it in your actions. Stand up for these people who are suffering! These humans deserve at the bare minimum the charity to not be accused of being opportunistic leeches or a swarm of cattle looking to graze in someone elses field. The world is big enough, has enough food, and has enough water to house and feed the entire population of the world. We absolutely have the resources to do this. So why doesnt it happen? Politics. Nice slogan. Did you learn it at the Bernie Sanders rally? Or the Jeremy Corbyn one? And that is why you should be donating to Caritas or to the ICRC, as I am pleased to do on occasion. Yes, these are human beings (and I'm neither a bro nor a skippy, by the way), and they have a right to their homeland, just as I have a right to mine, and you to yours. They do not have a right to my homeland, just as I have no right to theirs. You're thinking about an easy solution, as the press wants to lead people to do, which will lead to only more suffering over a much broader range of humanity in the long run. That militates against one of our most precious cardinal virtues, prudence. Earth is our homeland. We are all brothers and sisters in Christ are we not? Is that not what you believe as a Catholic? Borders do not define us nor does race, gender, ideology or whatever else. Stop being so flipping possessive. Jesus teaches us to feed the hungry, give drink to the thirsty, clothe the naked! I dont know the bible verses, but Im pretty sure Jesus teaches us to welcome the poor who seek our help and always to so with charity. When did people start to cling to their fake politics or fake borders before clinging to eachother in our shared humanity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicansoul Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Im not going to debate you on abortion here, Id love to in another thread if youd like to start it. But if you call yourself prolife, prove it. Show it in your actions. Stand up for these people who are suffering! These humans deserve at the bare minimum the charity to not be accused of being opportunistic leeches or a swarm of cattle looking to graze in someone elses field. The world is big enough, has enough food, and has enough water to house and feed the entire population of the world. We absolutely have the resources to do this. So why doesnt it happen? Politics. Earth is our homeland. We are all brothers and sisters in Christ are we not? Is that not what you believe as a Catholic? Borders do not define us nor does race, gender, ideology or whatever else. Stop being so flipping possessive. Jesus teaches us to feed the hungry, give drink to the thirsty, clothe the naked! I dont know the bible verses, but Im pretty sure Jesus teaches us to welcome the poor who seek our help and always to so with charity. When did people start to cling to their fake politics or fake borders before clinging to eachother in our shared humanity? I dont' have to prove anything to you, just calling you out on your liberal hypocrisy. I am for respect and dignity of all life from womb to tomb, you can't say that can you? IT makes all the rest of your points pontless if you don't defend the most vulnerable amongst us... Anyway, I don't want to debate you either, because I find debating liberals utterly pointless and a waste of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrossCuT Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 (edited) I dont' have to prove anything to you, just calling you out on your liberal hypocrisy. I am for respect and dignity of all life from womb to tomb, you can't say that can you? IT makes all the rest of your points pontless if you don't defend the most vulnerable amongst us... Anyway, I don't want to debate you either, because I find debating liberals utterly pointless and a waste of time. Your assumptions about what I believe only show your ignorance. And yes, you do have to prove it. Just saying youre Pro Life means literally nothing in the world of things that matter. Pro life means so much more than being against abortion legality; it extends to all peoples irrespective of origin or birth. If you are a Homo sapien of any flavor, you protect that person because you are prolife. End of story. Politics have nothing to do with it; humanity and basic human dignity above all else. Edited September 29, 2015 by CrossCuT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bardegaulois Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 CrossCuT, I'm going to presume from your back-and-forth with dominicansoul that you would consider yourself pro-choice. If that is correct, then perhaps I shall further presume that you are so out of a hatred for children. If I were to make that latter presumption, then would I be representing your position fairly? Moreover, I see that you represent yourself here as "spiritual, not religious." Let me then assume from that that you consider yourself so because you don't have the self-discipline that not only the practice of our Catholic faith, but the practice of any of the world's great religions requires. Again, if I were to do that, would I be doing justice to your position? If you answered a resounding "No!" to either of those questions, then I would have to ask why you're making similar fallacious presumptions about those holding points of view that differ from yours, rather than evaluating those opinions on their own merits--unless of course your superficial grandstanding here is part of a greater paroxysm of self-righteousness. Moreover, I don't heed any advice on how to live my faith from someone who doesn't practice it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrossCuT Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 (edited) CrossCuT, I'm going to presume from your back-and-forth with dominicansoul that you would consider yourself pro-choice. If that is correct, then perhaps I shall further presume that you are so out of a hatred for children. If I were to make that latter presumption, then would I be representing your position fairly? Moreover, I see that you represent yourself here as "spiritual, not religious." Let me then assume from that that you consider yourself so because you don't have the self-discipline that not only the practice of our Catholic faith, but the practice of any of the world's great religions requires. Again, if I were to do that, would I be doing justice to your position? If you answered a resounding "No!" to either of those questions, then I would have to ask why you're making similar fallacious presumptions about those holding points of view that differ from yours, rather than evaluating those opinions on their own merits--unless of course your superficial grandstanding here is part of a greater paroxysm of self-righteousness. Moreover, I don't heed any advice on how to live my faith from someone who doesn't practice it. Based on things youve actually said, Im going to assume you're a pretentious stain on humanity. A very typical response from a christian extremist who can no longer reconcile their religious views with a corrupt and hateful political system is to immediately start shaming their opponent by trying to degrade them via overly religious righteousness and superiority. What things have I specifically said regarding refugees do you disagree with apart from "This is my land and you people dont belong here" Edited September 29, 2015 by CrossCuT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bardegaulois Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 And on that note, CrossCuT, I'm going to agree with dominicansoul that further arguing with you would be "utterly pointless and a waste of time." My last point about faulty presumptions was obviously lost on you and thus led to no introspection on your behalf. If you want to argue with caricatures of ideas and not ideas, then you're talking to the wrong fellow. If, however, you actually want to address the issue, cool down a bit and come back later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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