Christian Hedonism

[Poorly Catechized Convert]

Does anyone know anything about John Piper's concept of Christian Hedonism? Someone was telling me of this concept as a result of talking about his book Desiring God and the concept itself seems concerning. I admit that I don't know much, amd his theology could be fine. Still, hedonism is often put on opposition to Christian orthodoxy.

Edited September 15, 2015 by Poorly Catechized Convert

[MarysLittleFlower]

Wow this really brings me back to my Protestant days.... Convert too I read Piper a bit when I was "non denominational".

From what I understand his idea here is that there's nothing wrong in enjoying God - though I think calling it "hedonism" makes it sound confusing. I don't remember if there are points there that go against Church teaching because when I read the book I didn't know or believe the Church teaching.

I think... There's nothing wrong in enjoying God - but - we should seek His consolation, not ours. This idea of thinking more of Jesus' happiness and Him having delight in His relationship with us - is a very Catholic concept that is often missed in Protestantism. Granted God doesn't need us in His nature and we are just sinners, - so how could we even think about this? But I believe when we love Jesus, this brings Him joy because His love causes Him to long for union with our souls - little and unworthy as we are. So my response might go like this... yes consolation from God exists, yes it is amazing beyond words but - its best to seek Him above that, for Himself, and love Him in suffering too.

But I can't address the book in detail because I don't remember any other points it makes and how they relate to Church teaching...  I think the main idea of Piper is that we glorify God BY enjoying Him, and that He gives Himself to enjoy. I am not a theologian but it seems to me like Jesus is glad if we respond to Him with joy, delight in Him and love His presence. I think if we value His presence as the greatest joy in life that does glorify Him. However I dont agree with putting the consolation over Him - I'm not saying Piper is, I just don't know. So if Jesus wants to help us grow by hiding Himself, our trust in that time glorifies Him too. Maybe even more because its hard not to enjoy His presence, but it takes much abandonment and love to fully trust in darkness.

St John of the Cross would be the Catholic Saint, I think, who does a phenomenal job describing both the delight a soul finds in God and how to avoid putting that delight above Him. I'm not sure what Piper says on that - I'd hope he would agree.. In any case i think "hedonism" isn't the term I'd choose, so that it doesn't sound like some spiritual gluttony. God's presence is beautiful but I don't believe that seeking experiences of Him is entirely selfless. Its better to just seek to love IMO  

[Poorly Catechized Convert]

Thanks. That's a great reply; it's very informative and makes a lot of sense.

 I was also non denominational.

 

[MarysLittleFlower]

According to what I just read, "Christian hedonism" was chosen as a title for some other reason, not as a form of philosophical hedonism. Piper said our happiness is not the highest good - rather the highest good gives us the most happiness. Its true that God's Will is our happiness, but I'd add that this happiness has its fullness in Heaven - here on earth we may seek the highest good yet suffer, and that is not a negative thing. We learn to suffer with joy. So I don't think the statement was complete and I don't think that there is constant happiness here on earth even in seeking the highest good. Piper then says that its fine to seek our happiness as a motive as we seek the highest good. Sort of like... Seeking God's Will because that would be our happiness. Though I don't doubt that is what is best for me, I personally would rather seek God's Will simply because His Will being done would bring Him joy. I'd rather have the focus be Him - even if it were to cost us. I think the spirituality of seeking God for Himself is more Catholic - even though He is our happiness, and its good to believe that and be grateful for it. I just don't want it to be ultimately for me. In suffering we should love too. 

Thanks. That's a great reply; it's very informative and makes a lot of sense.

 I was also non denominational.

 

Oh we have something in common!  what year did you convert? (me - 2009).  

I remember Piper being very popular as a writer 

 

Edited September 15, 2015 by MarysLittleFlower

[Poorly Catechized Convert]

Thanks for looking into this further. I appreciate it. Your comments are helpful  :).

I converted in 2011. 

 

[MarysLittleFlower]

That's great! and no prob!