A Battered Faith

[Bruce S]

[quote]June 14, 2004

A Battered Faith

Connie Lynne Carrillo

Once a millennium, an overpowering urge beckons me to clean out our closets and drawers and cart bloated bags of clothes to local charities.

This millennium's purging struck a bittersweet note. I stumbled across a small, blue Catholic prayer book - worn, frayed, forgotten and exiled to the bottom of a jam-packed drawer. As I began rummaging through it, bygone memories came flooding back and suddenly, overwhelmingly, a realization swept over me. Just like my old clothes, this church of my memories was gone. What happened? Where did it all go?

I am an alien in the neo-modern, mega-Catholic Church; lost in austere, cavernous, unruly monstrosities, where I may no longer worship, venerate and reflect, but now must raucously "assemble" in the din of an irreverent "gathering space."

And now, my church has become a bastion of hypocrisy, mired for two nightmarish years in a monumental, devastating, unending sex abuse scandal. When our saintly, beloved pope speaks, the world snickers, his moral authority undermined, his own house in disarray. And, in his twilight, this great man must bear the burdensome reality that he let this one get by him; his 25-year legacy of holiness stained by the worst scandal in modern church history. Our church transformed into a war zone; our battlefield littered with wounded souls; our priesthood offered up on a platter for sexual predators to devour.

Our bishops claim an "institutional mind-set" clouded their judgment. They were victims of the times, considering sex crimes diseases to be treated and cured, rather than felonies to be reported and punished. Or were they just protecting their own? Even the most minimally rational citizens know that the rape and molestation of minors has always been considered a crime so unspeakably appalling that perpetrators are often murdered in prison. But not our bishops, who harbored and covered up for these individuals for decades, contaminating and decimating our priesthood, shaming and humiliating our decent and faithful priests.

Meanwhile, lifelong Catholics were alienated, families torn apart; lives were destroyed, hearts broken. Worldly, arrogant bishops fiddled while Rome burned. Confident they were above the law, they artfully dodged prosecutors, abdicated societal obligations, lived in palatial mansions, vacationed in seaside villas, drove fancy cars and wasted untold millions of our hard-earned dollars on lawyers, hush-money, country-club treatment centers and grotesque, monster churches and cathedrals. Our children, teachers, schools and poor urban parishes were callously abandoned; our disabled children were excluded from our elitist Catholic school system.

Hack, new-age, psycho-babbling theologians consider all these unholy aberrations their personal triumph. They proclaim, victoriously, that the church they have shaped and molded since Vatican II has finally come of age and thrown off the shackles of the Middle Ages! But when I peep out of my foxhole on the Catholic battlefield, I witness an unmitigated disaster, a church in shambles. It is disgraced, beleaguered and unraveling in an incomprehensible maelstrom of scandal, denial, decadence and depravity.

We were expendable, exploited for sexual gratification, then discarded. Victims were shunned and abandoned when they dared to cross the "thin blue line," exposing our dirty little secret. How could so many "Judas priests" betray us, our children, the very souls they were ordained to shepherd?

But when will we learn how many "Judas bishops" we have? How many knew of these sex crimes and conspired to conceal them? How many refused to warn parishes, or authorities, that dangerous sexual predators were in their midst, generating a holocaust of more and more victims? How many perpetrated this colossal cover-up, as heinous as the crimes themselves? How many of them will be rendered unto Caesar?

I cast the crumbling prayer book onto the millennial "gone" pile. But it haunted me all day, called to me, stubbornly refusing to take its leave. In the end, I granted the reprieve and rescued it from banishment. Some pages tumbled out and a long-lost, yellowed clipping slowly floated to the floor. "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Edmund Burke's prophetic admonition, so cruelly taught, at such a human toll. I tenderly placed the book on the nightstand. These ancient, forgotten prayers have worked miracles, I surmised. Hope for my church springs eternal. But nothing will ever be the same.

Connie Lynne Carrillo is a freelance writer who lives in Kansas City and is MidWest Voice Columnist for The Kansas City Star.

[/quote]

[Bruce S]

[quote]But when I peep out of my foxhole on the Catholic battlefield, I witness an unmitigated disaster, a church in shambles. It is disgraced, beleaguered and unraveling in an incomprehensible maelstrom of scandal, denial, decadence and depravity.
[/quote]

Gee, the very same words as used by Martin Luther about 1540.

Nothing has changed.

Another Catholic is about to become a plain old, just Christian it would seem.

As I have noted before.

Last year in the USA, the Catholic Church had 80,000 adult conversions IN. And lost 3-5,000,000 OUT, and that is the USA alone.

The solution?

So blatantly obvious, that it will never ever be done.

Galatians and Timothy 1 &2, on church governence and a healthy church.

But, hey, ride the Catholic Church down into non-existance, let the PRIDE and LEADERSHIP take things to the point where the only people left are the hard core militants, and lethargy pew sitters.

Can the Aegean Stable ever be cleaned, many think not.

Edited June 16, 2004 by Bruce S

[1337 k4th0l1x0r]

You're lucky you edited that message before I quoted you on saying 'a Catholic is about to become a Christian.'

[Bruce S]

[url="http://www.votfbpt.org/Keating-on-review-board.pdf"]http://www.votfbpt.org/Keating-on-review-board.pdf[/url]

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Bruce S' date='Jun 16 2004, 09:22 AM'] Gee, the very same words as used by Martin Luther about 1540.

Nothing has changed.

Another Catholic is about to become a plain old, just Christian it would seem.

As I have noted before.

Last year in the USA, the Catholic Church had 80,000 adult conversions IN. And lost 3-5,000,000 OUT, and that is the USA alone.

The solution?

So blatantly obvious, that it will never ever be done.

Galatians and Timothy 1 &2, on church governence and a healthy church.

But, hey, ride the Catholic Church down into non-existance, let the PRIDE and LEADERSHIP take things to the point where the only people left are the hard core militants, and lethargy pew sitters.

Can the Aegean Stable ever be cleaned, many think not. [/quote]
The quotation above is simply a diatribe. It is not a logically formulated argument nor are there any reference citations for the statistical information provided. Although I have heard the 80,000 new members figure used elsewhere (I believe that figure or one close to it can be found on the USCCB website), the other figure is completely unsupported by any objective sources.

[blovedwolfofgod]

Every church has its sex scandals. Do you know why its not publicized when a Lutheran church's minister molests someone? There is no money in it. Media gets good press when they can persecute the Roman Catholic Church. The Catholic Church is a giant organization. When you sue one parish, its felt in the diocese and then ultimately in Rome. When you sue a Protestant church, you sue that church. Thats it. No central structure. And you realize that the figure you put out for people in the US leaving the church probably isnt nearly that bad in other countries. Most other countries that are Christian are Catholic. Catholicism is the largest religion. Next is Sunni Islam. The Catholic Church isnt gonna die. God promised the Church from the beggining that it would last forever. In addition to the article being the veiwpoint of just one person. The Church is better off than the media would like us to think. Its not a sinking ship. Protestantism can just look more appealing sometimes. If you know nothing about the faith, the Catholic Church is retarded. It just looks dumb and boring. If you learn about it and put effort into it though, you find a degree of truth that is unmatched by protestants.

[Bruce S]

From Christianity Today:

[quote]Still, the percentage of Roman Catholics among Hispanics drops in the younger generations, from 74 percent of Latino immigrants to 72 percent among their children. The figure falls to 62 percent among the third generation, according to the study, which was funded by the Pew Charitable Trusts.

"We are seeing major demographic shifts taking place among second- and third-generation Latinos," Espinosa reports in the study's summary (a Spanish version is also available). "The percentage of Latino Protestants and other [non-Catholic] Christians simultaneously increases from less than one in six (15 percent) among the first generation to one in five (20 percent) and almost one in three (29 percent) among the second and third generations."

The generational shift echoes studies by Roman Catholic priest and sociologist Andrew Greeley. He reported in 1988 that one of seven Hispanics had left the U.S. Catholic Church in fewer than 25 years. As many as 600,000 Latinos may be leaving the Catholic fold yearly, warned Greeley. If such "hemorrhaging" continued, he said, half of all U.S. Hispanics would not be Catholic by 2013.

The HCAPL study concludes, "Were it not for the massive influx of largely Catholic immigrants arriving in the United States over the past decade, Greeley's predictions might have already come to pass."

[/quote]

And that is ONLY the Hispanic Catholics, and they only make up 20% of all US Catholics.

Extrapolate that.

The exodus OUT is greater with those that are not tied to the closely knit Hispanic Catholic culture.

No matter how you slice it, the 80,000 converts IN, as reported by the USCCB contrasted with the FLOOD out, is not a healthy situation.

And the Catholic Church keeps ON IT's BOOKS, as a Catholic, EVERY person baptised as a Catholic. You can't even formally resign. I have seen statistics where 30% of all those "nominally counted" haven't set foot IN a Catholic church in decades.

The inflated bogus numbers the Catholic Church toutes, are just plain hogwash.

Heck, I'm still listed as a Catholic, as is Budge, she even went twice to ASK to be removed from her parish roles, and they wouldn't.

Edited June 16, 2004 by Bruce S

[DojoGrant]

Bruce,

When a story supports your agenda, you post it. I've never seen you post anything positive about the Church. Do you believe positive stories are false or contain lies? Why is it one sided?

[DojoGrant]

Bruce,

Your statistcs report that actually contained a number (600,000) used the word "may." It's not a statistic, but a guess.

Furthermore, your conjecture that it is different in non-Hispanic culture is, well, conjecture.

Not to mention that people leaving the Church has no bearing on the Truth she proclaims.

[Bruce S]

Now I'm a bad guy because I don't post POSITIVE stories on the Catholic Church?

Grin.

Hey, don't tell anyone, ok, I'm a Protestant EX Catholic....shhhh, don't want anyone to know that.

My "job" here, is to present opposing ideas, and to counterbalance the Catholic lovefest and back patting, isn't it?

That IS, what an INTER-faith dialogue forum is for, or silly me, I fogot, this is the Catholic converts in waiting forum?

[Apotheoun]

[quote]The generational shift echoes studies by Roman Catholic priest and sociologist Andrew Greeley. He reported in 1988 that one of seven Hispanics had left the U.S. Catholic Church in fewer than 25 years. As many as 600,000 Latinos may be leaving the Catholic fold yearly, warned Greeley. If such "hemorrhaging" continued, he said, half of all U.S. Hispanics would not be Catholic by 2013.[/quote]

It's always good to use statistical information based on a study conducted in 1988. That was after all a very important year. But even if that statistic were still accurate, you have asserted that 3,000,000 to 5,000,000 people left this year. The numbers don't add up.

[DojoGrant]

Bruce,

If the Catholic Church can mix up numbers as you suggest they do...why are the sources you quote reliable? Could it be...because you have an agenda? The answer? Yes.

You trust some sources but not others. Your choice. That hardly makes you correct.

[cmotherofpirl]

Well Bruce its always easier to pick a group to suit your lifestyle that actually change your lifestyle to fit God's Church.

Want a same-sex union, become an Anglican.
Want to belief Jesus really didn't die for our sins, join the Methodist free-thinking bishops like Mr Spong.
Don't like alcohol and dancing become a Baptist.
Want to believe you can become a god when you die, become a mormon.
Want to think abortion is ok, become a presbyterian.




I am not trying to insult any of these groups, but really tell me how they conform to the Word of God found in SCriptures and the Catholic Church?

Doesn't the Bible say something about the straight and NARROW path?

Edited June 16, 2004 by cmotherofpirl

[blovedwolfofgod]

Well bruce, you give us something to do. Props for that, i guess. Hehe. Well, its gonna be fun. God knows i have too much time on my hands.

[Bruce S]

[quote]Not to mention that people leaving the Church has no bearing on the Truth she proclaims. [/quote]

Yeah, right, whistle past the graveyard.

The FIRST Reformation saw 1/2 of the worldwide Catholic population escape.

This, the SECOND Reformation, is shaping up to be just as dramatic.

The 'numbers' the Catholic Church 'claims' are just counting those baptisted, without their knowledge, as INFANTS, not those who attend, believe, or practice Catholicism.

Sorry.

It has EVERYTHING to do with the "Truth" you take in barely sentient beings as members, but EVERY one that leaves to become an Evangelical or Pentecostal Christian is an ADULT, making a concientious decision, to OP OUT.

YOU may believe you have the ONLY TRUTH, but a swarm of Catholics doing the EXODUS number, those with firsthand knowledge, do not.

Here, read this, from OUR SUNDAY VISITOR ->
[url="http://world.std.com/~pastoral/whyleave.htm"]http://world.std.com/~pastoral/whyleave.htm[/url]