Does Baptism Cleanse Us Of Mortal Sin?

[1337 k4th0l1x0r]

I believe that even before you're baptized, you can have confession. However, it is not the sacrament of reconcilliation. Confession isn't a sacrament, it's just part of the sacrament of reconcilliation. Repentance of sins is a calling to all, baptized and non-baptized, so a confession could be a good thing to make before your baptism. It would be sacrilige, however, to believe that you were receiving the sacrament or for the priest to absolve you of your sins. It would just be a confession, but penitent's privilege should still apply.

Edited June 16, 2004 by 1337 k4th0l1x0r

[popestpiusx]

[quote name='Pio Nono' date='Jun 16 2004, 09:49 AM'] JMJ
6/16 - Eleventh Wednesday

popestpiusx,

Isn't Thomas about the coolest cat you've ever seen? [/quote]
Yes indeed!

[qfnol31]

[quote name='voiciblanche' date='Jun 16 2004, 03:02 AM']If you've committed a mortal sin and haven't Confessed it, you probably won't get there. But praying a few Hail Marys as a Penance usually won't pay for the sin. The venial sins are [i]purged.[/i] The mortal sins have already been forgiven, but they must be [i]paid for.[/i][/quote]
And here is why I confess venial sins. That and I don't want to commit them anymore.

In response to the original question, it's been held since before Augustine's time that Baptism cleansed all sin. In his [i]Confessions[/i] he talks about why he wasn't Baptized until he was around 33 years old. Part of the reason for this is because back then (this was changed later in his life) penances could last for a long time. One of the Emperors of Rome had to give up the throne for eight months just for penance, and that wasn't all he had to do. He pretty much had to live as a peasant. Now of course these long penances made it difficult for people to carry on with their daily lives and probably interfered quite often. Since his parents (especially his dad) wanted him to be successful, they didn't want him to have to worry about the penances from Reconciliation. Therefore they waited until he was older to Baptize him, just so that he could get all his mortal (which he had tons of) and venial (even more) sins forgiven. Remember, he lived back in the 4th century. (If you read on, you find out that he wasn't too happy with his parents for this, even though earlier in his life he couldn't have cared less. Part of this is that he wished he had received the graces from Baptism before some of the acts he committed.)

[quote name='crusader1234' date='Jun 16 2004, 02:55 AM']
isnt purgatory mostly paying for venial sins? because you dont get there if you have mortal sins when you die.[/quote]

That's mostly true, but you can actually get to Purgatory with mortal sins. The Church teaches that if you are in the state of perfect contrition and have the intention to go to Reconciliation, but can't make it for some reason and then die, there is the possiblity of you eventually making it to Heaven.

[quote name='OwNeD_byGoD' date='Jun 16 2004, 03:07 AM']

whoa nelly, ok it gets tricky here, see the thing is that when you are absolved of your sin, whether mortal or venial, with sorrow for your sin of course, you become clean of it, When God absolves he forgives and forgets[/quote]

God does and does not forget what we've committed. It's an interesting concept, but it's because we can't understand the mind of God that this part becomes tricky. I got into a long discussion on whether or not God forgets and the answer is yes and no. God is omniscient and knows everything that happened, is happening, and will happen, so it would be impossible for Him not to know, but like I said, this has to be approached with the knowledge that God is so much greater than us, so trying to understand Him, could take the rest of our lives (including Heaven. )

[quote name='BeenaBobba' date='Jun 16 2004, 03:22 AM ']

I wonder if a person can go to Confession before they're baptized. Anyone know?
[/quote]

No reason to. Just Baptize them and you don't have to worry about it as long as they're sorry for their sins.

Just my .02 ya'll.

Have a great one!

BTW, congratulations on going through RCIA and wanting to come into the Church! I think it's awesome!

[popestpiusx]

[quote name='qfnol31' date='Jun 16 2004, 11:50 AM']
That's mostly true, but you can actually get to Purgatory with mortal sins. The Church teaches that if you are in the state of perfect contrition and have the intention to go to Reconciliation, but can't make it for some reason and then die, there is the possiblity of you eventually making it to Heaven.



[/quote]
This may be a nitpicking point but you canot actuallly get to purgatory with mortal sins. If you make the perfect act of contrition those mortal sins are forgiven. It's just that we can't ever know if it was in fact a perfect act of contrition, and so we can never have the assurance you recieve from the Sacrament of Penance.

[Norseman82]

[quote name='Pio Nono' date='Jun 16 2004, 06:49 AM'] JMJ
6/16 - Eleventh Wednesday

Just to clear the air.....

[b]Baptism cleanses the soul of all sin, original, mortal and venial[/b].

Continue talking. [/quote]
And the Cathechism agrees:

[url="http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/pt2sect2.htm#art1"]http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/pt2sect2.htm#art1[/url]

See paragraph 1263: "By Baptism all sins are forgiven, original sin and all personal sins, as well as all punishment for sin".

[Ash Wednesday]

Hey justfran,

Congratulations on your desire to join the Church. It sounds like you're pretty anxious about a lot of stuff, but take a deep breath, say a prayer, and know just how much God loves you. [b]He loves you to no end.[/b]

As you go on your journey, remember to pace yourself. You will certainly not know and understand everything overnight -- I know I don't -- I'm a cradle Catholic and I learn new stuff about the Church all the time. I think we continue to learn new things about God and the Church until the day we die, that is how rich the faith is.

[theculturewarrior]

I was baptized as an adult, Justfran. I know that I was forgiven all my sins (and they were many, and grave!) Not only was I forgiven all my sins, mortal and venial, but I was also forgiven all punishment due to sin. If I had died on the way out the Church, I'd likely not have at to go to purgatory, in theory, anyway.

BAPTISM is AWESOME! Most people who have this blessing don't realize what a difference it makes. It is the difference between night and day. Keep in mind that God disguises himself in the Sacraments. They are very mysterious. When you are baptized, you may not feel angels breathing inspiration into your soul, or anything like that. But when you look back a month, a half a year, three years from your baptism, you will see it as the pivotal moment in your life.

I'll be praying for you.

And Voici, and OBG...I really don't know how to tell you this, but somebody taught you wrong somewhere along the line. It is important to take catechization into our own hands in this day and age. I recommend reading imprimatured books, especially the Catechism. It is awesome!

Edited June 16, 2004 by theculturewarrior

[voiciblanche]

[quote name='theculturewarrior' date='Jun 16 2004, 02:29 PM'] And Voici, and OBG...I really don't know how to tell you this, but somebody taught you wrong somewhere along the line. It is important to take catechization into our own hands in this day and age. I recommend reading imprimatured books, especially the Catechism. It is awesome! [/quote]
I'm not surprised. Just mad that it means that's about $4,000 going completely to waste.

The Catechism - reading it.

[OwNeD_byGoD]

haha TCW thanks, yeah i was a little half asleep at 3am when i was writing... but yeah i dont know where it was faulty but pretty much all i posted is what ive read in CCC and revelations to saints... will check it out tho =)

[justfran]

what does "imprimatur" mean????
I rung up my church to try and discuss a good time for RCIA classes with the priest and it turns out today's his day off so I left a message with the person who picked up and hopefully Fr. Manuel will ring me back tomorrow.

[quote]if you're worried you're gonna die before you receive it, then pray the daily rosary one of the gifts is that you wont die until you receive your sacraments [/quote]
...where did you get that?

And it's likely i won't be staying in the same diocese for the reflection period of my rcia...cos 9 days into it uni starts and if i get into the course i want, then it would be far better for me to move down to the uni cos it's a 2 hour train ride from home...

EDIT: The nearest church is just down the road from where I plan on staying. Tops!

Edited June 17, 2004 by justfran

[theculturewarrior]

if you die before receiving the sacrament, but you desire the sacrament, then you have a "baptism of desire." You are baptized in anticipation of receiving the sacrament, like Mary.

If you are martyred before baptism, you receive a "baptism of blood," which IMO is every bit as honorably (if not more) than water baptism.

God is not a lawyer. He's not going to send anybody to hell on a technicality.

An imprimatur is an official approval by a Church authority.

[justfran]

Okay so I told the priest about it and told me that I was just 17 - what I had done was because I was growing up, I didn't have full knowledge of what it implied so I was excused from mortal sin, and [url="http://www.catholicexchange.com/vm/index.asp?vm_id=6&art_id=22857"]this site[/url] seems to agree with me. It says the Church recognises psychological factors like [b]adolescent immaturity[/b] which i believe is what I had - because I'm only 17!!! And I'm pretty sure I didn't know that it wasn't what God wished for me because I always had the idea that it was just sex before marriage itself and I could masturbate all i wanted - wasn't it a "natural" thing?. I told the priest that yeah I did get a feeling that cybering was wrong, but (I didn't tell him this ->) I thought it wasn't "immoral" - as long as I kept it under control and didn't do anything stupid like throw myself at the nearest good-looking person...you know, because it was just another method
It did become a habit and yeah the temptation does pop up very unexpectedly. But I've renounced it for a couple of months now, before I became a convert.
Will someone PLEASE clear up whether I have actually committed a mortal sin or not? I feel I really need more than one opinion on this.


EDIT: And the [url="http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/pt3sect2chpt2art6.htm"]Catechism[/url] says:

#2352 "...To form an equitable judgment about the subjects' moral responsibility and to guide pastoral action, one must take into account the affective immaturity, force of acquired habit, conditions of anxiety, or other psychological or social factors that can lessen, if not even reduce to a minimum, moral culpability."

Still, someone, give me an opinion on whether or not I have actually committed a mortal sin or not.

Edited June 19, 2004 by justfran

[popestpiusx]

Fran, it is not likely that you committed a mortal sin (I have no way of knowing because I have no way of reading your soul.) The act itself is a mortal sin, but you must have full knowledge and full consent of the will in order to incur the guilt of such a sin. The thing is, it is irrelevant. You intend to enter the Church. You are not yet baptized. When you are brought into the Church, you will be baptized and all sins, and all punishment due to them, will be forgiven. You will essentially be starting on a blank slate. Good luck and may God's Grace preserve you therafter.

[justfran]

does baptism by desire wash away all sins too?

[BeenaBobba]

[quote name='justfran' date='Jun 19 2004, 12:37 AM'] does baptism by desire wash away all sins too? [/quote]
Yes, I would think so.

God bless,

Jen