Ash Wednesday Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amppax Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 I'm speaking of Church tradition. There's an article that explains it more - http://www.christendom-awake.org/pages/thomas-crean/praying-with-non-catholics.htm "The traditional teaching of Catholic theology on whether Catholics may participate in non-Catholic religious services is summed up by St Alphonsus Liguori in his Theologia Moralis. This doctor of the church writes, ‘It is not permitted to be present at the sacred rites of infidels and heretics in such a way that you would be judged to be in communion with them’.1 The reason for this teaching is clear: religious commitments are naturally manifested by outward acts; and to perform an outward act expressive of a false religious commitment is a sin against the true faith. This is true even if the man in question retains the true faith in his heart. So to take the classic example, Christians in the Roman Empire realised that they must not throw incense before a statue of the Emperor, even if they had no belief at all in his divinity – for the act was of itself, in their context, expressive of such a belief, and hence sinful. This teaching does not imply that the simple presence of a Catholic at a non-Catholic religious service is a sin. Thus moral theologians prior to Vatican II, following the lead of St Alphonsus, acknowledge that there may be a good reason for a Catholic to attend such a service, as when friendship leads one to attend a non-Catholic wedding. This is called by some theologians ‘passivecommunicatio in sacris’. It is activeparticipation in a non-Catholic religious service which is forbidden by the traditional teaching on communicatio in sacris, for example joining in with psalms and hymns in the course of a Lutheran Eucharist." The traditional understanding is for all Catholics not just 'trads' and the word communicatio in sacris is found in today's canon law. The article then compares the traditional understanding to a V2 document and another document that came after that was more 'pastoral ' than doctrinal. Its a complex situation but the author argues that V2 text doesn't substantially contradict the traditional teaching, and also argues that the traditional teaching is important for theological reasons. "These considerations seem to show that the text of Unitatis Redintegratio contains nothing which contradicts the traditional teaching of theologians on communicatio in sacris. Whenever this practice is commended by the conciliar document, it is never explicitly said that it is activeparticipation by a Catholic in non-Catholicservices which is in question. Such may have been the ‘mood’ of the Council – but it is not the letter of the text.8 Personally, I think Fr. Crean makes several errors in this article. I don't have time to address it at the moment, but perhaps at another time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarysLittleFlower Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 I don't know about the article. I just found it as an example. But I do trust my priest who counselled against actively worshipping with Protestants - even if there are errors in the article. I don't know enough theology .. If there are errors then I wouldn't want to promote them. But I don't think my priest is in error as he is very knowledgeable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarysLittleFlower Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 I don't know about the article. I just found it as an example. But I do trust my priest who counselled against actively worshipping with Protestants - even if there are errors in the article. I don't know enough theology .. If there are errors then I wouldn't want to promote them. But I don't think my priest is in error as he is very knowledgeable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Not the thread for it, but the article doesnt even state whether it is what the universal magesterium teaches. The word tradition is very vague, it doesn't even say sacred tradition. And since we have been in the last hour since christs death and there are many false teaches and Jesus says clearly there will be weeds amongst the wheat, just be careful what you believe and don't believe, i just believe without a doubt those matters of infallible faith and morals which comes for the universal magesterium and ex cathedra, everything else i just take with a pinch of salt so to speak and the utmost respect but it doesnt mean i just blindly believe anything and everything. No pun intended mary, just saying what i believe and practice personally, seek and you shall find, knock and the door will be opened. But also don't neglect your study of holy scripture, there is a lot of good stuff in there and as far as i'm aware the universal magesterium teaches that it is infallible in faith and morals but for some reason not absolutely infallible whatever that means, i'm not sure yet and need to talk to a priest as to what infallible in faith and morals means. oh the whole not absolutely infallible is my discernment of the priest telling me that it is infallible in faith and morals, he didn't say absolutely infallible. But anyway we can start a whole new thread on what is and isnt infallible if you like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 (edited) Thank you. I have no use for Mediators of Meh who abuse their power, such as editing a post that does not violate fourm rules, (see the "overcompensating statement" edit): http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/136329-here-is-a-thread-noone-who-isn39t-a-mediator-of-meh-can-comment-on/ Edited: personal attack. - beatitude. Edited September 10, 2015 by beatitude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4588686 Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Thank you. I have no use for Mediators of Meh who abuse their power, such as editing a post that does not violate fourm rules, (see the "overcompensating statement" edit): http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/136329-here-is-a-thread-noone-who-isn39t-a-mediator-of-meh-can-comment-on/ shut up, fatty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriela Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 shut up, fatty You're alive! Edited: personal attack. - beatitude. I know why the phorum broke. Winchester crossed the Winchester Line and the whole site just collapsed in on itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 That was sound advice. I was trying to be helpful. I haven't a cruel bone in my body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franciscanheart Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Has Winnie ever been edited for a personal attack? I can't even think of what he might have said to warrant such an action considering how incredibly reserved he always is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarysLittleFlower Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Not the thread for it, but the article doesnt even state whether it is what the universal magesterium teaches. The word tradition is very vague, it doesn't even say sacred tradition. And since we have been in the last hour since christs death and there are many false teaches and Jesus says clearly there will be weeds amongst the wheat, just be careful what you believe and don't believe, i just believe without a doubt those matters of infallible faith and morals which comes for the universal magesterium and ex cathedra, everything else i just take with a pinch of salt so to speak and the utmost respect but it doesnt mean i just blindly believe anything and everything. No pun intended mary, just saying what i believe and practice personally, seek and you shall find, knock and the door will be opened. But also don't neglect your study of holy scripture, there is a lot of good stuff in there and as far as i'm aware the universal magesterium teaches that it is infallible in faith and morals but for some reason not absolutely infallible whatever that means, i'm not sure yet and need to talk to a priest as to what infallible in faith and morals means. oh the whole not absolutely infallible is my discernment of the priest telling me that it is infallible in faith and morals, he didn't say absolutely infallible. But anyway we can start a whole new thread on what is and isnt infallible if you like. i think its more simple Tab to just believe what the Church teaches without analysing so much. There are many infallible teachings that aren't dogmas either. This teaching of avoiding communicatio in sacris has been from the early Church and its even in canons. I asked my priest about worshipping with Protestants and he advised against it; it is more simple to just trust my priest. He's not a false prophet. He's a good orthodox priest. I don't know if every point in the article is accurate or not - but the idea has indeed always been taught by the Church universally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Has Winnie ever been edited for a personal attack? I can't even think of what he might have said to warrant such an action considering how incredibly reserved he always is. At last a voice of reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrossCuT Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Wow, this thread doesn't disappoint. It was complete with the most self fulfilling prophecy slap fest followed up by a witch hunt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didacus Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Say - what was Winchester's salary anyways? And where can I apply for the job? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dUSt Posted September 10, 2015 Author Share Posted September 10, 2015 Say - what was Winchester's salary anyways? And where can I apply for the job? Most moderators are paid the minimum wage of my love. Winchester didn't even make that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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