Kentucky Clerk, Kim Davis

[Guest]

I don't support gay marriage but she should do her job or resign. Am I wrong?

Edited September 2, 2015 by Guest

[Guest]

I just learned this all happened before her conversion 4 years ago.

[Nihil Obstat]

Sounds like an appalling ad hominem to me. Maybe she is a hypocrite. Maybe she is simply a sinner like the rest of us. Leave her alone. 

[Guest]

I think it's a game changer all this happened before her conversion. So apologies for posting this.

[Gabriela]

I think this is detraction and should be ignored/deleted/closed.

Edited September 3, 2015 by Gabriela

[hotpink]

I don't think it's detraction at all.  Conversion or not, she's ignoring the fact that she very well participated in many sinful behaviors.  Is she saying that the government should be involved in divorce and remarriage and only allow for one marriage?

I think, if anything, it gives enormous insight into why she's doing what she's doing.  To me, her actions are a cry for help post-sin.  It's like she's saying that she's standing in the way of other's sin (like someone should of done in hers).  In fact, just running it by my friend who's a PhD he's inclined to agree.  He said many people post-conversion to whatever seek ways to expedite other's conversions by blocking actions...this can be everything from a new Christian who won't buy alcohol for a family recipe (even when there's no alcoholism and the alcohol burns off) to an Atheist who will sabotage family religious holidays or chew peoples head's off for saying Merry Christmas.

Providing marriage licenses, at any rate, doesn't seem to be an emotionally healthy thing for this woman to be involved in.  If she's a cleark perhaps they can give her another job, like working with the DMV.

--side note, it comes to mind that this would be similar to someone who'd reckless driven and lost a licence 2 or 3 times not wanting to give back a license to someone who had another serious offense...like DWI or something.

[franciscanheart]

No, I think it needs to be talked about. And for the reasons hotpink stated, oddly enough.

[Ash Wednesday]

We can't judge this woman for her past, we can wish her the very best with her future and continued journey of faith.

That said, even if we repent and receive forgiveness for the sins we commit, it doesn't always blot out future consequences. She may be forgiven and given the benefit of the doubt on her past within the Christian community, but the reality is, she will still have her past held against her in the general public. Again we shouldn't judge her, but to a certain extent I can understand why people would take issue with it.

I admire her willingness to stand up as a witness to her faith, but I don't think this will end well. I'm not sure what else to say at this point.

[Guest]

I don't like how she's being made out to be some Martyr. I think she should just resign. There are real Martyrs and she isn't one of them. Although now coming to find out all that stuff happened before her conversion I do apologize for the meme.

[hotpink]

We can't judge this woman for her past, we can wish her the very best with her future and continued journey of faith.

That said, even if we repent and receive forgiveness for the sins we commit, it doesn't always blot out future consequences. She may be forgiven and given the benefit of the doubt on her past within the Christian community, but the reality is, she will still have her past held against her in the general public. Again we shouldn't judge her, but to a certain extent I can understand why people would take issue with it.

I admire her willingness to stand up as a witness to her faith, but I don't think this will end well. I'm not sure what else to say at this point.

I don't think it's fair to say "we can't judge this woman for her past"  I think that making judgments as to why she is doing what she's doing.  I don't get why we are allowed to let facts apologize for behavior, but if it's judgment then wooooooooo.   So lets say that in my above example the clerk who wouldn't give licenses back to DWI had a child that was injured by a drunk driver.  Most people would be kind and accommodate that clerk, despite her past.  However, knowing her past, and having reckless driving charges (perhaps from driving sleepy or running a stop sign or "not too serious" offenses) this driver would NOT make a good spokesperson for safe driving.

 

I don't like how she's being made out to be some Martyr. I think she should just resign. There are real Martyrs and she isn't one of them. Although now coming to find out all that stuff happened before her conversion I do apologize for the meme.

And to answer Josh at this point I think that's the dichotomy we're seeing.  Because of her background I don't see her as someone steadfastly holding to her beliefs, I see her as someone who's trying to legislate morality.  I see it as her trying to put herself between sin and the sinner.  I think, in some way, this may be why she's willing to not do any marriage licenses.  Someplace, in her, she knows what a farce American Marriage has become.

There are many jobs, and within a city there's some mobility.  This is not a good position for anyone to be in both morally and emotionally.

I'm not saying only sinless people can stand in the way of sin.  I'm suggesting that her background may negatively affect her judgment in such a way that it makes it hard for her to be truly objective.

I mean, seriously, gay marriage aside---people with that many divorces and remarriages tend to be somewhat cynical towards marriage as a whole.  Being in the business of granting marriage licenses wouldn't be something that it would be wise for her to do in the first place.

[Nihil Obstat]

It does not matter how sinful or hypocritical one is; to issue a licence for a homosexual union is morally wrong, the government's insistence to the contrary notwithstanding.

[Guest]

She should also deny marriage licenses to people who have been divorced.

And I just want to state once again I don't support gay marriage. I'm just not a fan of this lady or how she's going about things. Prayers for her and her safety. I think she's bringing a lot of potential problems onto herself that could be avoided. That's her choice.

Edited September 3, 2015 by Guest

[Ash Wednesday]

 

I don't think it's fair to say "we can't judge this woman for her past"  I think that making judgments as to why she is doing what she's doing.  I don't get why we are allowed to let facts apologize for behavior, but if it's judgment then wooooooooo.   So lets say that in my above example the clerk who wouldn't give licenses back to DWI had a child that was injured by a drunk driver.  Most people would be kind and accommodate that clerk, despite her past.  However, knowing her past, and having reckless driving charges (perhaps from driving sleepy or running a stop sign or "not too serious" offenses) this driver would NOT make a good spokesperson for safe driving.

My apologies for the confusion, as I don't think we are discussing the same thing here and I probably did not make it clear.  I was speaking of judgment in terms of the state of her soul, not as far as how the public views her suitability or appropriateness in serving the public in the marriage license department.

[Basilisa Marie]

She should resign. Hotpink is right. 

We can assume she's had a conversion and has a new life in Christ, turned away from sin and is committed to being faithful to the gospel. Great. But even when we go to confession the temporal effects of our sin linger.  Life doesn't have a big reset button and one of the great tragedies of sin is that you often have to deal with the fallout from it even after you've repentented. Talking about her prior marriages gives us better insight into why she might be doing what she's doing so that we may respond with more charity and compassion, not to make fun of her. 

This really does look like one of those post conversion zeal situations. It's not unreasonable to think that it's a sensitive issue for her. But she's not going to convert any hearts by simply barring access to a government issued piece of paper. It's not the root of the problem, she's only addressing it in the surface. It's like trying to stop a train by standing in front of it instead of climbing into the car that controls the engine. 

[KnightofChrist]

Her evil or sinful actions of the past do not justify the fascist mindset of those that want to force her against her will commit sin in the present. Maybe it would be easier for us to see how ridiculous this mindset is if it were used against a doctor. A doctor that in the past performed abortions or gave out contraceptives, but has repented, and now refuses to perform abortions. The doctors past wouldn't justify those that would want to force him/her to sin presently.