Failing at religious life

[AccountDeleted]

I'm really not trying to be critical of religious or religious life, but sometimes the whole process can leave a lot of wounded people behind and I am just wondering what those who do "make it" and become consecrated think about this reality.  (I'm not the only one to experience this.)  Some people even lose their faith entirely.  I still have my faith, and for that I am very grateful.  But it can be really difficult to try to be vulnerable with the Lord, and this isn't something easily overcome.  

Although I posted before, I realize now that your question is really addressed more to those who have made it through to the consecration stage in religious life, rather than just those of us who have been through similar experiences to yourself. You are asking what religious think about the impact on those who leave.

Naturally I can't speak for any of them, but unless they have had previous religious life 'failure' experiences themselves (perhaps in a previous community), it might be difficult for them to really understand what you are going through. There is so much emphasis on the 'specialness' of a vocation and how it is 'higher' than secular life etc, that it almost automatically creates an atmosphere of competitiveness or one-up-manship. So if one ends up leaving the community for whatever reason, it feels like a failure, even though in reality, it isn't. And that feeling of failure is what causes the woundedness. It's only after one leaves and is in pain that people start saying how it doesn't matter about a vocation to religious life - God has other plans that are just as good. 

I have yet to meet even one nun who tried to make me feel better about leaving a community. In fact, one nun was so mean as to tell me that she knew from the beginning that I didn't have a vocation because I didn't have the right personality. I have absolutely no idea why she would want to say such a hurtful thing, when it would have taken so little effort, and been so much kinder and more charitable if she could have said something comforting. She wasn't the only example of this lack of charity - just the worst. And not even one community ever thought they might possibly be a contributing factor in the end result - the blame always seems to rest completely on the person leaving (or being asked to leave). 

And like you, freedomreigns, I have no desire to be hypercritical of religious life, or totally negative about it. But I AM realistic about it now, having had plenty of experience in various communities. The ideal is wonderful, the reality isn't always.  I stopped expecting vindication and/or understanding from anyone. God knows the truth and that's enough for me. And yes, many people do lose their faith in the Church or in God after having a really bad experience of religious life. I can only say that although it takes more effort to try to hang on to faith and positive feelings about life than it does to wallow in self-pity and despair, the rewards are immeasurably greater in the long run. So hang in there.

If you ever need to vent to someone about all this, I am a 'failure' at religious life many times over, who has come through the other side of anger and despair to finally find joy and peace about my life and my relationship with God - and I would be more than happy to be an 'ear' or a 'shoulder' - just PM me.

[MarysLittleFlower]

In my previous post I said some things that helped me deal with the types of feelings the OP was describing when I had them. I'm writing this because you voted down my post Nunsense but didn't say what you disagreed with. It may not be what you yourself found helpful, but it is what helped me, and I don't think I said something factually incorrect. I was trying to say that God loves us in our suffering and allows everything for a reason, which is a thought that helped me. Oh well 

[AccountDeleted]

In my previous post I said some things that helped me deal with the types of feelings the OP was describing when I had them. I'm writing this because you voted down my post Nunsense but didn't say what you disagreed with. It may not be what you yourself found helpful, but it is what helped me, and I don't think I said something factually incorrect. I was trying to say that God loves us in our suffering and allows everything for a reason, which is a thought that helped me. Oh well 

MLF - I use the downvote to express my disagreement with a post (not just yours - anyone who posts), but I don't always address the reasons why - neither does anyone else on phatmass - I had had many downvotes on my posts where there is no reason posted - and I am fine with that - we all have a right to disagree or dislike what someone posts without explaining ourselves. I specifically don't address posts to you because I have been accused of bullying you in the past by others who think they have to defend you against me, so I made the decision not to respond to any of your posts in future. That way, I can avoid the 'debate style' posts that seem to occur when someone disagrees with you and countless post after post occurs back and forth stating the same points of view over and over. Others may wish to engage in this fruitless task, but I don't choose to anymore. It seems to me like you always have to have the last word in any discussion. That's fine, but it just means that I choose not to get into that particular contest with you. In this case, I disagreed with what you said but rather than get into a debate about it, which would definitely happen should I try to explain my thinking, I chose simply to downvote. 

Now this post will get a lot of downvotes for 'picking on you'  - it's just part of life, the universe and everything.   Believe it or not, this is NOT a personal attack - or at least was not meant as one, simply a response to your statement that I don't explain myself. I find it very difficult to communicate with you, so find it easier not to try. It's that simple.

BTW, MLF - you aren't the only one I downvoted in this thread and I only downvoted one of your posts when I disagreed with two of them, so I think I was being moderate. If you go to my profile and check my reputation for posts, you will see that I have received plenty of downvotes myself. I try to prop more than downvote but it depends on the topic and how passionate I am feeling about it at the time. But I just want you to see that it isn't a big deal when someone disagrees with you. And sometimes not explaining why is more charitable because it prevents a flame war developing - something we try to keep out of VS since it occurs so strongly in other parts of phatmass! One downvote isn't the end of the world. And all it means is that we see things differently, ok? 

[MarysLittleFlower]

Nunsense, I'm sorry that I'm difficult to talk to. I'm not going to respond to the rest so it doesn't start a debate. But I don't understand what I said in this thread that was wrong. I only tend to down vote a post very rarely and if I see something there contrary to Church teaching - and even then not always. So we probably use the voting system differently. 

[AccountDeleted]

Nunsense, I'm sorry that I'm difficult to talk to. I'm not going to respond to the rest so it doesn't start a debate. But I don't understand what I said in this thread that was wrong. I only tend to down vote a post very rarely and if I see something there contrary to Church teaching - and even then not always. So we probably use the voting system differently. 

MLF - you might not be difficult to talk to for anyone else except me. The fact of life is that you can please some of the people some of the time but not all of the people all of the time (to paraphrase a quote). The only person in this thread that you probably should want to please is the OP, as she is the one who posted the concerns, questions and pain. If your post helped her, then what does it matter if I, or anyone else for that matter, disagrees with what you post? It is not only unnecessary but probably impossible to get everyone to agree with a point of view. Not everyone even believes in God! I didn't disagree with the content of your post per se, but I would not only have not found it helpful during my time of pain after a 'failure' in the convent, but I would have been very upset and angry by it. But freedomreigns might have found what you posted both comforting and helpful. So ask her, not me.

As for why and how we all use the voting system - that is an individual thing and some people use it because they don't like the tone of a post, or the content or the way something is stated. I have been surprised at some of the downvotes I have gotten too, but I certainly accept that each person has the right to use them as they see fit. When I first joined phatmass, there was no voting system, then there was without downvotes - just props, then there was with downvotes, then there was but with no downvotes again, and now there is again with downvotes. It's no big deal. Some of us lost a lot of props when dUSt did a major cleanup of old posts and many were deleted (and the props along with them). The reputation system has changed over the years too - now we have the titles of angels, and it used to be only about five levels I think, now there are many more. Things change here as they do in life. I have seen you come and go come and go from phatmass  depending on how upset you get. But phatmass is always going to have ups and downs and changes and people who irritate you, and you will irritate others too. This is only the Internet!!!!!  Bend a little or you will break. 

So maybe we can stop hijacking this thread now?? We return you to your regular broadcast.

 

[MarysLittleFlower]

OK, back to the regular programming I hope the OP wasn't further upset by my posts, - I just shared what helped me when I had those feelings about discernment earlier in the summer. I felt like its impossible for me to be a religious and those thoughts are what comforted me. If they don't help anyone else, I'm sorry, maybe then I'm not one to give advice. There are many other posts to choose from here too    

[petitpèlerin]

I'm in this situation, MarysLittleFLower, and what just seriously comforted me was your avatar of Christ crucified and the words "I thirst". Thank you.

I shouldn't say I'm in exactly this situation. I did leave a community but I'm considering returning so it's not necessarily a permanent departure. But I wrestle (torment myself) with many of the same thoughts: how could I ever live with these sisters, how could they ever live with me, and feeling that God doesn't love me and doesn't have any plan for me, wondering if he's ever been there at all. It's a major trial of faith.

[MarysLittleFlower]

I'm glad the picture brought you some comfort  

 I'm sorry you're going through this too

one time a priest really helped.. I was afraid of how God sees me, because of my sins. He priest told me to meditate on how Jesus would look at me if I could see Him. He described Jesus with so much love His eyes.  It somehow healed and comforted me so much - that I still often meditate on this now. Sometimes images can help when words cannot maybe if you're a visual person too!

This is a picture of Jesus that I often use in prayer too - the longing in His eyes is what is so moving:http://orbis-catholicus.blogspot.ca/2007/04/limpias-crucifix.html?m=1

 

Edited September 2, 2015 by MarysLittleFlower

[MarysLittleFlower]

This is a picture of Jesus that I often use in prayer too - the longing in His eyes is what is so moving:http://orbis-catholicus.blogspot.ca/2007/04/limpias-crucifix.html?m=1

 

[MarysLittleFlower]

I don't know if this would help anyone in this situation, but these are some things I try to remind myself of when I am unsure if Jesus really wants me close to Him. Many doubts about whether He is calling to religious life seem to be related to this more general fear. Maybe someone can relate

https://maryslittleflower.wordpress.com/2015/09/04/he-desires-your-heart/

[Era Might]

I am a bit curious about the views of the religious here on phatmass about what it means for those of us who tried and failed at religious life.  I'm not actually wondering about what you all think about those who just discern out peacefully, but really about those who try and do not have what it takes- physically, emotionally, or spiritually.  (Although your thoughts in general would of course be most welcome.)  

I really felt rejected by God, and the language used to describe the religious life can still really rub a sore spot for me- the idea of "giving yourself wholly to God," and "being called to a special intimacy."  What if someone tries and God says "no?"  Or worse yet if that person feels like God said, "You aren't strong enough/holy enough/whole enough/good enough?"

Just some thoughts that I still need to work through, and to seek the Lord's healing for.  But, your thoughts might help to clarify this a bit for me.  

I'm really not trying to be critical of religious or religious life, but sometimes the whole process can leave a lot of wounded people behind and I am just wondering what those who do "make it" and become consecrated think about this reality.  (I'm not the only one to experience this.)  Some people even lose their faith entirely.  I still have my faith, and for that I am very grateful.  But it can be really difficult to try to be vulnerable with the Lord, and this isn't something easily overcome.  

I've never been in religious life, but I've come to see having a vocation in life (in the general sense) as both the best and worst thing that happens to us. On one level, a vocation is a definite path in which we fit...but to have a path means you must follow it, not because you want to, but because you must. I believe failure is a vocation. Not everyone fits into this world. Some people do...some people have the right personality, or the right circumstances, or the right connections, etc. to fit into the world, but many others lack something crucial that would fit them into the world. They're the misfits, the ones we don't know what to do with, and who don't know what to do with themselves.

 

As he passed by, he saw a man blind from his birth. And his disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?" Jesus answered, "It was not that this man sinned, or his parents, but that the works of God might be made manifest in him. We must work the works of him who sent me, while it is day; night comes, when no one can work. As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world."

--John 9:1-5

I think that's a great definition of vocation..."we must work the works of him who sent me." Why was this man born blind? So that Christ could heal him. To be healed is to be whole, to discover how your actual life fits in to everything...not your imagined life or your fantasy life, but your actual life. That's all you have is your real life. "The first will be last, and the last will be first." I also think of the parable of the wedding feast, where Christ says to go out into the streets and bring in the poor and the crippled and anyone they can find. We are all beggars of grace. A life of religious life can be undone in one moment of weakness or despair, and a moment of faith or hope can be our salvation.

I think the answer to your question is found in the garden of Gethsemane. The Apostles were not invited into the garden with Christ...he went alone, but he told them to watch with him, to be there with him, to listen and see what was going on, but they fell asleep. To fail is like being outside the garden...of Gethsamene, of Eden...and to sleep. The only way forward is not to sleep, but to sit and watch and listen to what Christ is saying and doing.

Edited September 5, 2015 by Era Might

[MarysLittleFlower]

"I think that's a great definition of vocation..."we must work the works of him who sent me."

That's a great point our vocation is not for us... it's just to do His work. His Will, not ours.

[AccountDeleted]

 

I've never been in religious life, but I've come to see having a vocation in life (in the general sense) as both the best and worst thing that happens to us. On one level, a vocation is a definite path in which we fit...but to have a path means you must follow it, not because you want to, but because you must. I believe failure is a vocation. Not everyone fits into this world. Some people do...some people have the right personality, or the right circumstances, or the right connections, etc. to fit into the world, but many others lack something crucial that would fit them into the world. They're the misfits, the ones we don't know what to do with, and who don't know what to do with themselves.

 

I think that's a great definition of vocation..."we must work the works of him who sent me." Why was this man born blind? So that Christ could heal him. To be healed is to be whole, to discover how your actual life fits in to everything...not your imagined life or your fantasy life, but your actual life. That's all you have is your real life. "The first will be last, and the last will be first." I also think of the parable of the wedding feast, where Christ says to go out into the streets and bring in the poor and the crippled and anyone they can find. We are all beggars of grace. A life of religious life can be undone in one moment of weakness or despair, and a moment of faith or hope can be our salvation.

I think the answer to your question is found in the garden of Gethsemane. The Apostles were not invited into the garden with Christ...he went alone, but he told them to watch with him, to be there with him, to listen and see what was going on, but they fell asleep. To fail is like being outside the garden...of Gethsamene, of Eden...and to sleep. The only way forward is not to sleep, but to sit and watch and listen to what Christ is saying and doing.

Era, one of the problems of having to leave religious life is that the person feels 'called by God' to enter in the first place. Then, when it doesn't work out, for whatever reason, it actually feels as if one has been rejected by God Himself. It is a very difficult cross to bear, and hurts more than anything imaginable. If one feels rejected by the Lord of the Universe, then really, what is one worth? What is the point of even doing anything anymore? It can lead to all kinds of depression, despair and wanting to reject both the Church and God. It takes almost superhuman effort to get through this initial phase of feeling rejected because it isn't the same as being rejected for a job or even by another human being. It might be the community doing the rejecting (or the person leaves because the community isn't what they thought it would be)but in either case this involves the whole person - their spiritual as well as their emotional and physical beings. There is disappointment in the community in either case, so anger at the Church for what appears to be deceit or at the very least, misrepresentation of religious life, and disappointment in self at not being 'special' enough to endure or to please God. And there is disappointment in God because if one does everything they can and still get rejected, then it seems like God doesn't really love us.

It's hard to talk about, and even harder to go through. And it's not just about a 'vocation' but about being accepted by God via the community. If one survives it,they can come out stronger and even see some benefits in what happened, but it can be a long road to recovery.

[MarysLittleFlower]

Yes the main suffering is feeling like you've been rejected by God... I had it this summer after discerning and feeling called to religious life for around six years and then it seeming like something impossible. It could be possible though and probably I lacked hope/trust. But it was already extremely painful without even trying religious life. If someone entered a community and then it didn't work out, that must be even way worse. That's scary because it was pretty bad already and made me almost close up to God. I think that's probably the main difficulty - closing the heart to Him. It took much help from God to help me believe again that He really does want me, even if it won't be possible for me to be a nun.

Edited September 5, 2015 by MarysLittleFlower

[AccountDeleted]