Aloysius Posted June 16, 2004 Share Posted June 16, 2004 i was posting and it was like "this topic has been moved or deleted" so i came to the debate table with my post in my computer's clipboard. [i]The evaluation of these conditions for moral legitimacy belongs to the prudential judgment of those who have responsibility for the common good.[/i] This means that the decision to go to war is left up to the governing authority who would be sending troops into battle. It does not mention anything about whether or not it is just: but says that leaders in these positions must take this into consideration and act for the common good to which they have a responsibility. this means that the decision for whether or not to go to war was Bush's decision, and that he had the right to make that decision because he is the legitimate cheif of the United States of America. If Canada were considering going to war, your leader would be have the responsibility of making prudential judgement based on these criteria as to whether he should exercise his nations power. it simply states that when a country is debating this, it's the leaders ultimate decision and he should weigh it carefully based on these criteria. pAx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusader1234 Posted June 16, 2004 Author Share Posted June 16, 2004 [quote]Saddam was successfully opposing the authority of the United Nations[/quote]...hmmm, wait a second, the whole WAR was against the authority of the UN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted June 16, 2004 Share Posted June 16, 2004 [quote]Apotheoun, I disagree with you, because I do think the Pope is in charge... [/quote] The Pope is not a political leader, he is a moral teacher, and thus he is to clearly state the underlying moral principles involved in the just war doctrine; but the prudential judgment about going to war or not, is left to the proper public officials who govern the nation concerned, and who are charged with the duty of protecting the common good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusader1234 Posted June 16, 2004 Author Share Posted June 16, 2004 Well, In any event, Canada did not support the war so I dont have to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted June 16, 2004 Share Posted June 16, 2004 [quote name='crusader1234' date='Jun 16 2004, 12:32 AM'] ...hmmm, wait a second, the whole WAR was against the authority of the UN [/quote] no, it twasn't! twasn't at all! it was the enforcing of UN regulations. the UN secuirity council didn't decide to take action (though in the resolution it accepted it clearly stated to saddam "or else" it just decided not to back it up) the war was not against the United Nations Resolutions. It defended them. pΛx Ω Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusader1234 Posted June 16, 2004 Author Share Posted June 16, 2004 The United Nations told the United States not to go to war, and until they say its ok to go, its not ok to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted June 16, 2004 Share Posted June 16, 2004 [quote name='crusader1234' date='Jun 16 2004, 12:34 AM'] Well, In any event, Canada did not support the war so I dont have to. [/quote] lol. no one [b]has to[/b] support the war, just like no one [b]has to[/b] be against the war... at least according to what the Church teaches. if they were under CIA surveilance, perhaps they would [b]have to[/b] support the war pAx Ω Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted June 16, 2004 Share Posted June 16, 2004 [quote name='crusader1234' date='Jun 16 2004, 12:34 AM'] Well, In any event, Canada did not support the war so I dont have to. [/quote] Honestly I can't see this one. I mean, I respect your decision not to support it, but Canada supports gay marriages, no? Does that mean that you can support them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted June 16, 2004 Share Posted June 16, 2004 [quote]Well, In any event, Canada did not support the war so I dont have to. [/quote] That is correct. No one has to support any war, not even a just war, although it could be an imprudent act on the part of the person opposing a just war to withhold his support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted June 16, 2004 Share Posted June 16, 2004 [quote name='crusader1234' date='Jun 16 2004, 12:36 AM'] The United Nations told the United States not to go to war, and until they say its ok to go, its not ok to go. [/quote] #1 pardon me if i'm ignorant, but could you quote the UN on that #2 the Catechism clearly says it is the country's government who has juristicition over whether or not his country goes to war, so even if the UN did oppose it that doesn't mean the US did not have the right to go to war. pAx Ω Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusader1234 Posted June 16, 2004 Author Share Posted June 16, 2004 [quote]2308 All citizens and all governments are obliged to work for the avoidance of war.[/quote] If the war isnt just, you cant support it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted June 16, 2004 Share Posted June 16, 2004 no one has established to me that it isn't just. i have given you what i consider legitamate aggreement between this war and the just war doctrines. pAx Ω Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted June 16, 2004 Share Posted June 16, 2004 How were WWI and WWII just? However, I definately support US involvement in that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted June 16, 2004 Share Posted June 16, 2004 [quote name='crusader1234' date='Jun 16 2004, 12:36 AM'] The United Nations told the United States not to go to war, and until they say its ok to go, its not ok to go. [/quote] The UN also said many other things that it didn't back up and Saddam didn't listen to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted June 16, 2004 Share Posted June 16, 2004 Read through the catechism quote, and if you know history even a tad i'm sure you can pick it out where the threat was and all that. In the light of history, i'm sure future Catholics will be able to look back with all the declassified facts and everything and be able to say definitively whether or not it was just, just like we can now do with WWI and WWII. (though the a-bomb tactic is quite questionable, whooooole other topic) pAx Ω Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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