Being a Man

[Era Might]

is that the same woody allen who married his step-daughter?  I'm not a rocket scientist but wouldn't that disqualify one to "being a man"

Being a man does not mean being perfect or sinless. That was my point about stories..."being a man" is a sort of way of life, I think, maybe analogous to a "rule of life," but there are no perfect men or perfect monks...life gets complicated, and sometimes you end up in prison, or in other detours on the path of being and becoming a man. Anyway, Woody is a great filmmaker, regardless of his personal life. His newest movie is called "Irrational Man" and is about a despairing philosophy professor who gets lost in his head and finds an existential "way out" (or at least he thinks so).

[Peace]

And those who have been integrated into the society/community have an obligation to help keep that space open and guide the young into it. We are failing in this basic duty for millions of young people. Knowledge of self and a philosophical discovery of freedom is great...I am all for that...but expecting young people to achieve that without a community to help them is anti-human IMO. Young people need a real and meaningful environment in which to grow, to have objectives to attain to. And no, a "free market" or the mere political freedom to do this is not enough...they need community, and that means effective and functioning political institutions such as media, education, etc.

Bump.

[KnightofChrist]

Being a man does not mean being perfect or sinless. That was my point about stories..."being a man" is a sort of way of life, I think, maybe analogous to a "rule of life," but there are no perfect men or perfect monks...life gets complicated, and sometimes you end up in prison, or in other detours on the path of being and becoming a man. Anyway, Woody is a great filmmaker, regardless of his personal life. His newest movie is called "Irrational Man" and is about a despairing philosophy professor who gets lost in his head and finds an existential "way out" (or at least he thinks so).

I don't want to divert the topic, so I hope this will not become a thread about Mr. Allen. Going back to a point you made earlier in another thread Allen seems very much like the man who has 'romantic fantasies' of being this or that kind of person, a person that in reality he is not. Allen is an actor and plays roles and characters who are fictional in fantasies he creates. He can play a good man, but the reality of Woody Allen is quite different. I can't easily say the real Allen is a man or a good man, he seems rather more of a coward than a man, a coward that has committed some pretty vile stuff and never really faced up to it like a man (it goes further than marring his stepdaughter). I hope I've not insulted you but I just don't believe characters Allen plays should be role models for anyone because of the things the real Allen has done. Also I'm not so sure that Hollywood movies of actors and directors are really all that different or better than the imaginative fantasies regular folks.

 

 

[Era Might]

I don't want to divert the topic, so I hope this will not become a thread about Mr. Allen. Going back to a point you made earlier in another thread Allen seems very much like the man who has 'romantic fantasies' of being this or that kind of person, a person that in reality he is not. Allen is an actor and plays roles and characters who are fictional in fantasies he creates. He can play a good man, but the reality of Woody Allen is quite different. I can't easily say the real Allen is a man or a good man, he seems rather more of a coward than a man, a coward that has committed some pretty vile stuff and never really faced up to it like a man (it goes further than marring his stepdaughter). I hope I've not insulted you but I just don't believe characters Allen plays should be role models for anyone because of the things the real Allen has done. Also I'm not so sure that Hollywood movies of actors and directors are really all that different or better than the imaginative fantasies regular folks.

 

 

I have no vested interest in Woody Allen the man...it's fine if you don't like him, many artists have led complicated lives (e.g., Oscar Wilde). But Allen is a great filmmaker IMO...I just mentioned his recent movie as an aside because I just saw it and it is somewhat relevant to this thread (Allen is not an actor in the movie, Joaquin Phoenix plays the main character).

Edited August 14, 2015 by Era Might

[Socrates]

I know what I'm saying is hardly original, and probably not the pc answer some are looking for, but the best, most proven way for boys to grow into good men, and avoid crime, gangs, jail and hopelessness is having a father who is actually present in the home, and who plays and active and positive role in raising his son.  If not an actual biological father, boys should at least have a good father figure to raise them to manhood.

Yes, some dudes from broken or fatherless homes can come out alright, and sometimes guys from good family situations can "go bad," but there is strong evidence showing a correlation between strong families with fathers and boys being able to successfully grow into manhood and avoiding crime and such.  In the inner city neighborhoods where crime and poverty is rampant, intact families with a married mother and father are practically non-existent, and promiscuity and fatherlessness it the norm.  Gangs offer a substitute for fatherhood and a model of manhood.  Where families are strong and intact, and marriage is valued, there is much less crime and gangs.

Of course, fixing this problem is much easier said than done, as promiscuity, fatherlessness, crime, and poverty creates a vicious cycle that is hard to break.  What is needed are individuals taking responsibility for themselves, and voluntary action on the local community and church level.  It won't be easy, but a real change in culture, and return to "old-fashioned" morality and responsibility is needed.  This problem won't be solved primarily by federal government programs and easy tax-and-spend "fixes."

new rule: all boys have to watch Clint Eastwood's filmography upon reaching their 15th year. As a producer and director, he's a master. His films openly ponder masculinity and what it means to "be a man."   That's real daring in today's production climate, preoccupied as it is with ridiculing masculinity, apologizing for it, or denying its existence. He's the only person in the industry doing it, and maybe the only one who can.

 

 

 

Or better yet, John Wayne movies.

(I'm also a big fan of a lot of Clint Eastwood movies, though the man has hardly been a good role model in his personal life.)

[veritasluxmea]

I can't believe no one has posted 

 

[Norseman82]

new rule: all boys have to watch Clint Eastwood's filmography upon reaching their 15th year. As a producer and director, he's a master. His films openly ponder masculinity and what it means to "be a man."   That's real daring in today's production climate, preoccupied as it is with ridiculing masculinity, apologizing for it, or denying its existence. He's the only person in the industry doing it, and maybe the only one who can.

 

 

 

And I think the Clint Eastwood film that speaks most directly to the topic of this thread is "Gran Torino".

[Norseman82]

I know what I'm saying is hardly original, and probably not the pc answer some are looking for, but the best, most proven way for boys to grow into good men, and avoid crime, gangs, jail and hopelessness is having a father who is actually present in the home, and who plays and active and positive role in raising his son.  If not an actual biological father, boys should at least have a good father figure to raise them to manhood.

Yes, some dudes from broken or fatherless homes can come out alright, and sometimes guys from good family situations can "go bad," but there is strong evidence showing a correlation between strong families with fathers and boys being able to successfully grow into manhood and avoiding crime and such.  In the inner city neighborhoods where crime and poverty is rampant, intact families with a married mother and father are practically non-existent, and promiscuity and fatherlessness it the norm.  Gangs offer a substitute for fatherhood and a model of manhood.  Where families are strong and intact, and marriage is valued, there is much less crime and gangs.

Of course, fixing this problem is much easier said than done, as promiscuity, fatherlessness, crime, and poverty creates a vicious cycle that is hard to break.  What is needed are individuals taking responsibility for themselves, and voluntary action on the local community and church level.  It won't be easy, but a real change in culture, and return to "old-fashioned" morality and responsibility is needed.  This problem won't be solved primarily by federal government programs and easy tax-and-spend "fixes."

Or better yet, John Wayne movies.

(I'm also a big fan of a lot of Clint Eastwood movies, though the man has hardly been a good role model in his personal life.)

+10000000. 

And I've said it before, and I'll say it again.  Much of the talk about "masculinity" really is about "masculine values".  If you want to know what they are, start with the gifts and fruits of the Holy Spirit.  Also add in assertiveness.  And the kicker is that not only do men need them, but women as well, and the point where the "rubber meets the road" for this for most people is in raising children.