Application Process

[truthfinder]

Thanks for your answer, I never would have guessed that!  Talk about  convent intrigue, no wonder there were reforms!

Actually this went for seminaries, and wasn't restricted to the middle ages.  It was in force until the 1917 Code of Canon law was abrogated with the new law in the 1980s.  I still know a seminary which asks for the parent's marriage certificate.  But this time I'm assuming it's because knowing if there were difficulties in the home life, so they can address them more easily during formation. 

[He is Risen!]

@ Truthfinder, drawing a picture was part of the psychological test, it had nothing at all to do with actual drawing skills, lol.  I kind of think that Fr. Benedict enjoyed giving the psych tests/ psych interviews as a way to get to know candidates.  He worked his whole life in the field of psychology.  It wasn't at all scary or nervewracking at all because of the loving approach he took to it and he "read" me so well that it put me totally at ease.  He really had a gift for it.  I don't think this much psych testing is standard for every community though!

[Pax_et bonum]

My friend is entering the Nashville Dominicans tomorrow(!!!), so I was on their page and found this:

• The candidate may request an application. This application process entails completing an information form; sending school transcripts, medical forms, Baptismal & Confirmation certificates; acquiring a letter of recommendation from a priest; writing a personal statement of one’s motive for entering religious life; and completing a psychological evaluation.

The process I started was similar to what's been described. I didn't need transcripts because it was a cloistered community, and I needed maybe four recommendation letters, at least one from a priest. The actual papers to fill out had a lot of questions on it just about getting to know you and your history and your family's history. The autobiography was guided by sets of questions, so that wasn't too hard. I didn't get as far as the medical exams though because we already knew my health was deteriorating. It's not scary or anything; it's exciting that a community wants to get to know you so well even if filling out all the questions is a bit tedious.

[marigold]

Is there a particular reason for getting to know candidates via their application rather than via face to face acquaintance over a period of time?

[puellapaschalis]

Is there a particular reason for getting to know candidates via their application rather than via face to face acquaintance over a period of time?

I'm guessing (emphasis) that it's to do with record keeping and having a paper trail.

[marigold]

I'm guessing (emphasis) that it's to do with record keeping and having a paper trail.

Oh that's a good point. I hadn't thought of that..

[Benedictus]

Is there a particular reason for getting to know candidates via their application rather than via face to face acquaintance over a period of time?

I think they should do both, allowing docs and conversations to inform the process.

Pro's of written stuff: It's useful, mostly for records, but it also prevents things being missed or disputed too. It can also be used as a basis to explore and find out stuff that may not come up in conversations. It also permits a wider pool of people to review and discern if things seem to be OK or not (they can simply review the file for a progress report). Sometimes things can also get missed or overlooked when relying on conversations and built up impressions alone. Some people also don't like to talk about or ask certain questions, so putting them on paper first can be useful, even if they have to get talked about at some stage.

The paperwork, along with chats, also forms the basis of the interviews and the psych evaluations (at least in my experience).  It also stops you having to keep repeating and duplicating the same information about yourself each time you meet or converse with a superior

Edited August 15, 2015 by Benedictus

[marigold]

Doesn't it seem a bit... reductionist, though? How can I put myself down on paper, or even talk about my entire life's relationship with God - this is something that a trusted superior could get to know over a longer period, but I'm not sure me trying to write the important points down succinctly would be helpful. It also presupposes that I know myself... I heard one senior sister say that when a new person arrives, 'They don't really know why they're here'. And to her that was okay. Perhaps in the interests of getting a lot of factual information across quickly - schooling, catechesis, work history, etc. I don't know.

[puellapaschalis]

If it were solely paperwork, then yes, I'd agree with you, @marigold. But what @Benedictus said makes sense to me: like it or not, in this day and age we need a paper trail for more or less everything. It seems to me that the paperwork is to protect both the community and the applicant.

[Sr Mary Catharine OP]

Is there a particular reason for getting to know candidates via their application rather than via face to face acquaintance over a period of time?

Marigold, it's both. Writing an autobiography is also helpful to the person applying. And for some people, they are better able to express things when they write. Also, if the person is healthy there will be a continuity between what is written and what has been shared verbally.

School transcripts can prove helpful because its hows the community your strengths and weaknesses and how you have (hopefully) matured. For example, if someone had a high school transcript that was really good and a college transcript that was really poor it would be the subject of conversation and this "objective" fact could help someone share something about their spiritual growth that perhaps otherwise they wouldn't share but wanted to.

It's not reductionist. We absolutely know that we are only starting to know the candidate and she us! There is an old adage that it doesn't matter WHY you come to the monastery, what matters is WHY YOU STAY! It's about conversion.

Mostly we don't really know ourselves when we come to the monastery but we gotta start somewhere!

(Happily I didn't have to write an autobiography! )

At one point, being of illegitimate birth was an impediment to becoming a superior. (I believe this law/custom originated in the middle ages to prevent wealthy nobles from endowing a monastery and then setting up their illegitimate children as the abbot or abbess.) Currently, not being of legitimate birth isn't an impediment to anything, but some communities still have a custom of asking about this or requesting a copy of a candidate's parents' marriage certificate.  

There is NO NEED for a community to ask this question anymore or to ask for parents marriage certificate. My community stopped after I entered and pointed it out to them that it was not needed after the '83 Code or the '86 Constitutions. I was quite taken aback when I was asked this by a religious community. 

[Feankie]

This might help you if you are writing a spiritual autobiography (or anything, for that matter.)  It's a spiritual timeline - a record of your journey with and to God. It's helpful in many ways - you will see periods of definite growth, of procrastination, of downright "stuck in the mudness."I have most of my directees do this exercise and encourage them to keep going, adding more paper as the years go on.  So.......Take several sheets of paper and tape them together landscape style .I'm significantly older than most of you here, I would add many more sheets than you   Think of it like a roll of toilet paper you would unroll.  Then start marking it off, first in 10 year increments (leave plenty of space) then subdivide into 1 year marks.  Start it from birth and end it at your current age.  Then comes the fun part.  Start thinking about the important events in your life - baptism, 1st Communion, 1st Reconciliation, Confirmation, date of acceptance into the Church, etc.  Make a mark on the appropriate year and list the event below.  Then comes the more difficult part.  Mark off significant events such as the date you first started discerning, if and when you started seeing a S.D., if and when you  made a total consecration to Mary, if and when you first spoke to your parents/friends about R.L.  , when you made initial contact with order/s, etc.  I think you get my drift here.  When you think you're finished, put it aside for a day or two. Then come back to it again and fill in those things you thought of since you first began working on it.  See the times you've grown, when you've gotten stalled or discouraged, etc.  See if you can find a pattern emerging.

It's a great exercise for anyone to do, not just those discerning.  Now go sharpen those pencils :))))

[Sponsa-Christi]

 

There is NO NEED for a community to ask this question anymore or to ask for parents marriage certificate. My community stopped after I entered and pointed it out to them that it was not needed after the '83 Code or the '86 Constitutions. I was quite taken aback when I was asked this by a religious community. 

Yes, I'd agree that this question really isn't necessary at all anymore!

Back when I was discerning religious life (in the mid- 00's), one community I was seriously discerning with did mention that they kept the custom of asking for a candidate's parents' marriage certificate as part of their application paperwork---though they were quick to point out that this was just a tradition they had, and wouldn't affect an application either way. I don't remember feeling too taken aback by this myself, since the legal facts about my parents' marriage seemed far less personal than the details of my spiritual life and vocation story. But then again, I never got to the point of filling out an application to join a community, so getting this paperwork together was always just a theoretical prospect to me.

[TheresaThoma]

Francis Clare I like the idea of putting together a spiritual timeline. I think it would also be helpful to add in other significant events (starting college, moving, death in family etc) I may have to try this. And maybe putting it together on a computer would work well as you can add space as needed.

[Spem in alium]

Great suggestion about the spiritual timeline. When I applied, I also needed to include information about people who had inspired me during school, my friends, my good and bad traits, my interests, and what particularly drew me to my Sisters. It definitely helps to organise on a computer.

[veritasluxmea]

I think Marigold's question as already been answered pretty well but I'd like to add- no Catholic religious community I've heard of passes out applications without getting to know the candidate first, and on a personal basis. Even the DSMME have a face to face interview and have to be approved in person. (NDs are more picky about it, there are several interviews and retreats before you can apply there.) So it's not like applying to a job- it's simply when you get to know each other well enough, and are ready to take the next step, they make sure all your ducks are in order to begin, so to speak. Received sacraments, are capable of articulating information about yourself, are physically and mentally ready for religious life, and so on. The point of postulancy (the first year) is to get to know the person better and on a personal level, and the application is a good start. The thinking goes if you can't "pass" an application, you won't really be able to live religious life- so the application helps screen people so they aren't moving away from home and leaving their job and everything only to have to leave to health issues or other obstacles that could have easily have been foreseen with an application. It helps prevent heartache and trouble. By the time you reach the application stage, orders usually know you well enough (health, personality, and so on) that you'll "pass" anyways, but it still helps to go deeper.