private vows question

[BarbTherese]

Sure is!

[marigold]

When I first made private vows on Feast of Our Lady of The Rosary 1980 approx. I went to our Church through the week and fortunately no one was in The Church. I made my vows in my own little ceremony alone.  I typed up a record or statement and our pp signed it, but only to witness my signature. The Home Mass was to renew life private vows and some 35years later.  As my SD said "Well, its certainly not a flash in the pan, is it?"  It was a stop and start journey for me since each time I had an episode of bipolar, the vows were automatically suspended (a condition of my private vows then).  I would renew them after the episode passed.  I could never predict what on earth would happen while an episode was in progress.

I have here somewhere in my files (some still boxed since shifting) the exact year, although I know it was the Feast of O.L. of The Rosary, 7th October.

 

 

That is the most humane thing I have heard in a long time. I'm blown away Let's have more of that attitude!

[BarbTherese]

I had to make the vows automatically suspended during a bipolar episode because I really did not know what on earth would happen during an episode.  There were times I woke up in places or found myself in places I had no idea where or how I had arrived there - nor how to get 'home' for that matter. I also felt that if I made the vows any more known than strictly between me and The Lord (and a few nuns and priests who were supportive all through my illness) people generally just would not and could not understand, while I knew that The Lord would absolutely.  This is the thing about private vows, one can determine/qualify them wholly for oneself - a private vow or vows to God can comprise any content that is a good act and under conditions one can elect oneself.  Common sense asked that I either not make the vows at all, or qualify them.  At the time when I first made them, my priest religious theologian director and confessor had passed away of cancer, although he had been in favour of me either making private vows or entering religious life.  He had always felt that bipolar would not be a lifelong matter for me, although medicine diagnosed otherwise.  He had directed me pre and post bipolar. After he passed away no one wanted to direct me.........nor come any closer than the proverbial ten foot pole.  Nor can I blame them.  It was a dreadful time as most all sufferers of mental illness do experience.  There were priests and nuns who were entirely supportive of me no matter what was happening in my life even the most alarmingly socially distasteful.  I never asked them to direct me in a formal type of manner knowing that I might unwittingly drag them into bipolar situations somehow.  They were always there with encouragement and advice anyway if I did ask.

 

[Swami Mommy]

I find it interesting that it sometimes seems so much easier to keep a vow made to an exterior God than it is to keep a vow we make to ourself, as though God is more worthy of our love than we are, even though God dwells within us AS us.  It reminds me of how much easier it is to walk the family dog for the dog's sake, and yet it is so difficult sometimes to take our own body out for a walk to maintain our own health.  

[AccountDeleted]

I find it interesting that it sometimes seems so much easier to keep a vow made to an exterior God than it is to keep a vow we make to ourself, as though God is more worthy of our love than we are, even though God dwells within us AS us.  It reminds me of how much easier it is to walk the family dog for the dog's sake, and yet it is so difficult sometimes to take our own body out for a walk to maintain our own health.  

 I don't find it strange at all. First, God is not 'exterior' (He is within us but He also exists as Himself) but the gist of your post is that we can keep vows to others easier than vows to ourselves. But the thing is, if we break a vow to our own self (like a New Year's Resolution), we only disappoint our own self. If we break a vow to someone else then we risk disappointing or upsetting or causing distress to that other person. When we make a vow to God, we want to keep it because it is like making a vow to any person who is a significant relationship in our life. Besides,we don't generally make 'vows' to our self, we tend to make promises or resolutions. A vow is a pretty big deal, like marriage vows.

[BarbTherese]

I find it interesting that it sometimes seems so much easier to keep a vow made to an exterior God than it is to keep a vow we make to ourself, as though God is more worthy of our love than we are, even though God dwells within us AS us.  It reminds me of how much easier it is to walk the family dog for the dog's sake, and yet it is so difficult sometimes to take our own body out for a walk to maintain our own health.  

I agree with nunsense.  Also, I don't think of necessity that it is easy to keep a vow to God than a promise or resolution involving others, nor of necessity is it easier to walk the family dog than to walk for one's health.  A vow to God however certainly has the weight of the more serious matter by virtue of the fact that God is God.  Some certainly experience God within as well as knowing and acknowledging Him as totally Other and this is Catholic theology i.e. that God is within and totally Other.  The very knowledge that God is God may just might keep a person "on track" through difficulties over and above any other promise or resolution due to the serious nature of a vow to God which must be fulfilled under the virtue of religion (Catholic theology) and therefore has an element of involving others.  For me, a vow involves God - a promise or resolution involves a human being or some matter.  I might make a resolution or promise to myself, but not a vow ........... although in the making of a vow to God one is, of course, automatically involving oneself in the contract.

[MarysLittleFlower]

Well even though God can live in a soul, we do not take on His substance.... We do not become Him. He has a Divine substance and we have a human substance. for this reason i do believe He is more worthy of love than me. That's why we can give adoration (worship) to God and not to creatures

[BarbTherese]

Catholic Culture

Modern Catholic Dictionary

Mysticism "Christian mysticism differs essentially from the non-Christian mysticism of the Oriental world. It always recognizes that the reality to which it penetrates simply transcends the soul and the cosmos; there is no confusion between I and thou, but always a profound humility before the infinite Majesty of God. And in Christian mysticism all union between the soul and God is a moral union of love, in doing his will even at great sacrifice to self; there is no hint of losing one's being in God or absorption of one's personality into the divine. "

[AccountDeleted]

Catholic Culture

Modern Catholic Dictionary

Mysticism "Christian mysticism differs essentially from the non-Christian mysticism of the Oriental world. It always recognizes that the reality to which it penetrates simply transcends the soul and the cosmos; there is no confusion between I and thou, but always a profound humility before the infinite Majesty of God. And in Christian mysticism all union between the soul and God is a moral union of love, in doing his will even at great sacrifice to self; there is no hint of losing one's being in God or absorption of one's personality into the divine. "

This is why, even though I love Buddhism, I see it as lacking in fullness because God is not personal. Without Jesus, I couldn't relate to God on a human level.

[MarysLittleFlower]

Catholic Culture

Modern Catholic Dictionary

Mysticism "Christian mysticism differs essentially from the non-Christian mysticism of the Oriental world. It always recognizes that the reality to which it penetrates simply transcends the soul and the cosmos; there is no confusion between I and thou, but always a profound humility before the infinite Majesty of God. And in Christian mysticism all union between the soul and God is a moral union of love, in doing his will even at great sacrifice to self; there is no hint of losing one's being in God or absorption of one's personality into the divine. "

Yup we don't lose our personality in union with God. Actually if we lost our very being how could we love? Love needs two persons. There are mystics who spoke of Jesus infusing us with His love and living through us in a way, but this needs to be understood in a way where we keep our human essence, as to not become pantheist. 

[BarbTherese]

 

This is why, even though I love Buddhism, I see it as lacking in fullness because God is not personal. Without Jesus, I couldn't relate to God on a human level.

"Jesus said to him, "I am the way and the truth ⁵ and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."  John Chapter 14      The Truth of God or The Father is expressed in Jesus: "The Father and I are one." John Chapter 10

 

[AccountDeleted]

 

"Jesus said to him, "I am the way and the truth ⁵ and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."  John Chapter 14      The Truth of God or The Father is expressed in Jesus: "The Father and I are one." John Chapter 10

 

I had experiences of God before my relationship with Jesus became real, but it was only when I knew Jesus that God became personal to me, and was more than just an infinite and impersonal being. It is such a condescension that He allows us to know Him personally. That is also His greatness.  

[He is Risen!]

I agree, when I first started really thinking about my faith as a young person, my head would explode just thinking about God the Father apart from His relationship with the rest of the Trinity.  They are inseparable.

[BarbTherese]

Me too.  I had an experience of God as a child but as someone totally remote.  Into my teens and at a time when the Divinity of The Blessed Eucharist was stressed at least through the education I received, it wasn't until I turned 16yrs that I had an experience of Jesus as totally human in every way - it changed my perspective completely.   I certainly have devotion to each Member of The Blessed Trinity as One God.

I had experiences of God before my relationship with Jesus became real, but it was only when I knew Jesus that God became personal to me, and was more than just an infinite and impersonal being. It is such a condescension that He allows us to know Him personally. That is also His greatness.  

I had this experience too - the really mind boggling, stunning, condescension and humility of God in The Incarnation that is also His Greatness and Glory - and an expression of His Love for us that stops one in one's tracks - but was stumbling over the words to express when chatting with a Carmelite nun pal - she recommended I read:

The Humility of God - Franciscan Perspective (through 'the lens of St Bonaventure)

"The Humility of God: A Franciscan Perspective is the first extensive treatment of a Franciscan theology of divine humility. Through the lens of St. Bonaventure's theology, Ilia Delio searches for God today "in a fast-paced, scientific world that in many ways views God as an unnecessary hypothesis." Using Bonaventure's Christ-centered mysticism, Ilia Delio illustrates God's humility and his relationship to the world, while at the same time tackling these tough questions: How can a God of love exist in such a time of turmoil and suffering? How can a well-educated Christian reconcile contemporary science with the central symbols of his or her faith?"

This is not an easy read at all, although it gets much easier towards the end.  But it sure was a worthwhile read. 

Edited August 13, 2015 by BarbaraTherese

[MarysLittleFlower]

In high school, when i wasnt close to Jesus, God seemed sort of abstract. My faith in Him was mostly theoretical. As I got to know Jesus, I got to know the Father  as He said if we see Him, we see the Father.