Chinese Government Tearing Down Crosses

[Gabriela]

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2015/08/05/world/asia/ap-as-rel-china-removing-crosses.html?ref=aponline&_r=1

LOWER DAFEI VILLAGE, China — About a dozen Catholics wept and sang hymns outside their church as a man climbed to the top of the building and sliced off its steel cross with a cutting torch. It toppled with a thud.

"Aren't you ashamed of what you have done?" a teary woman yelled at the more than 100 security guards, who along with police and government workers kept the parishioners of Lower Dafei Catholic Church from protecting the symbol of their faith. The guards, who stood with shields and batons in the sun for nearly two hours, looked indifferent.

"Doesn't the government give us the right to religious freedom? Why are they taking down our symbol without any explanation?" another parishioner said hours earlier, as government workers arrived to build the scaffolding to reach the cross.

"We have violated no law. We do not oppose the government," said the parishioner, who gave his name only as Chen for fear of retaliation from authorities. "We have been good, law-abiding citizens."

Authorities in southeastern Zhejiang province are believed to be under a two-month deadline to remove crosses from the spires, vaults, roofs and wall arches of the 4,000 or so churches that dot the landscape of this economically thriving region.

 

More at the link.

 

Edited August 6, 2015 by Gabriela

[puellapaschalis]

There's that, and then there's the parish priest in - I want to say New York - who's pulling icons and other artwork off the sanctuary walls and calling it 'renovation' whilst the (arch?)diocese ignores people's pleas. Sometimes you wonder if the Church believes in freedom of religion; I think some (arch)dioceses think people are free to practise any religion other than Catholicism.

[marigold]

I read that people had started strapping themselves to the crosses to stop them being taken away...

[HopefulHeart]

There's that, and then there's the parish priest in - I want to say New York - who's pulling icons and other artwork off the sanctuary walls and calling it 'renovation' whilst the (arch?)diocese ignores people's pleas. Sometimes you wonder if the Church believes in freedom of religion; I think some (arch)dioceses think people are free to practise any religion other than Catholicism.

Yep, the removal of artwork is happening in Manhattan, at Fr. George Rutler's previous parish. A sad situation.

[MarysLittleFlower]

Sad story is this the Chinese church that separated from Rome or the one in union with Rome? But its sad the government is taking off crosses in addition to everything else they do 

Edited August 7, 2015 by MarysLittleFlower

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

there communist, which is now leaning toward zero tolerance on any form of advertising, same goes for nike and everything. Frances socialist wing which is a moderate form of communism is moving toward banning crosses and crucifixes being displayed on a person, as defence for there no berka stance, which for the whole tattoo debate probably includes tattoos in visible places. I think crosses will still be allowed in privacy and you can where your pendant cross on your chain pressed against your skin and every time it swishes across your breast you can think of christs victory.

I am only a dim wit, my optimism is not so bright but my realism is tight. Pray for me to be more optimistic.

We can only pray the inside of churches are considered church property and not public. Enter at your own risk kind of thing.

Edited August 7, 2015 by Tab'le De'Bah-Rye

[Nihil Obstat]

Sad story is this the Chinese church that separated from Rome or the one in union with Rome? But its sad the government is taking off crosses in addition to everything else they do 

The Chinese national church is in a sensitive situation. From what I understand, what happens is that the Chinese government has arrogated itself to possessing the right to choose bishops themselves with or without Rome's approval, and the rest of the hierarchy is expected to consecrate those bishops. Many of these bishops of course are picked because of their loyalty to the Party over the Church. However my understanding is that Rome has been working to, whenever possible, have bishops that both the Party and Rome can consent to, for the sake of those Catholics who may not have access to the underground Church for the sacraments, and for the sake of unity.

[MarysLittleFlower]

Thanks! Does the national church have the Sacraments?

[Nihil Obstat]

Thanks! Does the national church have the Sacraments?

Again based on my own understanding, their priests and bishops should all be validly ordained and consecrated.

Basically, there is a Chinese Patriotic Catholic Association, which theoretically oversees the entire Church in China and makes all decisions as an arm of the government. It does what bishops and the pope should be doing. Their grasping of this authority is, of course, abhorrent. So there is the Church in China which is sanctioned by the Patriotic Association, and there is the underground Church which is not. Theoretically if the CPCA chooses bishops of whom Rome disapproves, and those bishops do not submit to Roman authority, that would indicate a state of schism.
But at the same time, not all bishops and priests (and laypeople) operating under the CPCA are schismatic or heretical. And in the past there have been moments of cooperation between Rome and the CPCA, albeit strained and unofficial. I believe since 2010 the CPCA has become more hardline and less willing to work with Rome.

It is an extremely complex situation. I would recommend the Wikipedia article on the subject as a starting point, then reading its references afterwards.

CPCA and the Catholic Church[edit]

Despite the difficulties that have confronted China's Catholics over the last 60 years, the Vatican has never declared the Chinese Catholics attending CPCA-sponsored church services to be schismatic,^[4] despite calls to do so by organizations outside of China.^[7] Chinese Catholics who accept CPCA directives on the government of the Church are not for that reason heretical, though it can perhaps be maintained that they are schismatic. Even if some Chinese Catholics were considered to have accepted as their belief the correctness of the approval of abortion and artificial contraception that has been attributed to the CPCA,^[8] their position could be compared with that of certain Catholics in other countries who expressly adopt that approval as their personal belief. In, for instance, inviting bishops appointed under CPCA rules to attend as Catholics in full communion with Rome an assembly of the Synod of Bishops,^[9] the Holy See indicated that it does not consider that the Church in mainland China (as distinct from the Chinese Patriotic Catholic Association) approves of abortion and artificial contraception. "The Holy See has continued to consider the episcopal ordinations in China fully valid."^[10] The clergy whom they ordain therefore conserve valid Holy Orders, and the other sacraments that require a priest as minister (in particular theEucharist) are also considered valid.^[4] As these facts demonstrate, the CPCA and the "underground" Catholic Church in China have significant overlap.^[11]

The bishops who conferred episcopal ordination on candidates chosen in the manner laid down by the CPCA, without a mandate from the Holy See, and those who accepted such ordination, participated in a schismatic act and were thereby automatically excommunicated.^[12] However, not all of them are considered to be still in schism since, beginning in the early 1980s, nearly all^[13] "took advantage of the renewed contacts with missionaries and foreign priests to send letters to Rome in which they declared their full communion with the Pope and the desire to be recognized as legitimate bishops. So ... the bishops subjected to the political control of the Patriotic Association tried the path of canonical sanatio to ... affirm their communion with the Pope, kept hidden because of external conditions, but never renounced in their hearts."^[14] Those few Chinese bishops who have not done so remain in formal schism.^[15]

For a time, some bishops who refused to accept CPCA control consecrated other bishops, so that there were cases of two parallel hierarchies among Catholics in China,^[16] the one in schism partly,^[17] the other in full communion with Pope Pius XII and his successors. The first to take this action was the Bishop of Baoding, Joseph Fan Xueyan, who in 1981 consecrated three bishops without any mandate from the Holy See, which, however, gave approval for his action at the end of the same year.^[14] This led to at least the perception, perhaps even the reality, of two parallel Roman Catholic Churches in China, often referred to as the "official" Church and the "underground" one.^[18]

It was precisely in that period that bishops ordained according to CPCA rules began to request and obtain recognition from the Holy See. On 26 September 1993 the Holy See decided that no more episcopal ordinations of the kind administered by Bishop Fan withoutprevious authorization by the Holy See would be allowed. It was also decided that, given the greater ease of communication then existing, bishops selected by CPCA procedures were likewise to request and receive the prior approval of the Holy See before ordination, and must seek to have as consecrants legitimate bishops, since "the active participation of illegitimate bishops cannot but make more difficult the acceptance of a subsequent request for regularization." They were also to make public, when they deemed it possible and opportune, the assent of the Holy See to their ordination.^[14] Some have actually made this public on the occasion of their ordination as bishops.

In September 1992, the CPCA-sponsored Conference of Chinese Catholic Representatives, in which the bishops were a minority, approved new statutes of the Bishops' College, which seemed to subject the College to the Conference and to reiterate the CPCA rules for the election of bishops and the replacement, in the rite of episcopal ordination, of the papal mandate with the consent of the College. Probably because of this, the September 1993 directives also exhorted the bishops to defend with greater courage "the rights of the Church and communion with the Roman Pontiff." And, in fact, the bishops claimed more strongly at the next Assembly of the Catholic Representatives, held in January 1998, leadership in church matters.

The ordinations of Peter Feng Xinmao in 2004 as coadjutor of Hengsui, Joseph Xing Wenzhi as auxiliary of Shanghai on 28 June 2005^[19] and Anthony Dang Ming Yan as coadjutor of Xian on 26 July of the same year were all papal appointments, which were followed by the government-imposed procedures of the appointee's election by representatives of the diocese and consequent approval by the Government itself. The Holy See refrained from making any statement, and no papal document of appointment was read at the ordination rites. However, it was noted that at least Bishop Xing swore to be "faithful to the one, holy, catholic, apostolic Church, with Peter as its head."

In a further highly significant gesture, Pope Benedict XVI invited three CPCA-appointed bishops, together along with one "underground" bishop, to the October 2005 assembly of the Synod of Bishops as full members, not as "fraternal delegates", the term used for representatives of non-Catholic churches invited to attend. Government permission for them to travel to Rome was withheld.

The Vatican stated that it had given its prior approval for the episcopal ordination of two CPCA-approved bishops in September 2007, and the Rome-based missionary news service AsiaNews, which follows events in China closely, quoted a Chinese source as saying the government was no longer imposing its own candidates as bishops and was now allowing the church more freedom.^[20]

[MarysLittleFlower]

Thats so complex and it must be confusing living in China I heard some amazing things about their underground church. It made me realize what a coward I am lol. 

[Nihil Obstat]

http://www.christianpost.com/news/cosma-shi-enxiang-catholic-bishop-dies-after-40-years-in-communist-prison-133689/

[MarysLittleFlower]

Eternal rest...

[Benedictus]

China has a tense relationship with most religious groups, but especially new religious movements and those seen as alien to the culture (including Catholicism). They've had years of trying to control, or oppress, groups such as Falun Gong and Tibetan Buddhism. I guess it's mostly down to issues of power and authority, especially in the case of Catholicism. But, as far as I understand, the situation has grown worse because of the perceived negative influences of evangelical sects and influxes of money from overseas (US etc) for church work. I've talked about this issue with Chinese friends before and most, even if not always thinking these strategies are necessarily the best, still believe that many religious groups, including Catholicism, are bad news for China and they wouldn't want any of them to gain significant influence. I was told of groups, and apparently this appears on the news too, acting like sects and cults trying to divide society. So, I don't see this type of action by the government ending any time soon.

[vee]

nothing new, its Red China.  Wake me when Communism is gone.

[Benedictus]

Tab'le De'Bah -Rye -  France does have fairly strict secular laws (they had a revolution after all ),  but it is especially strict about headcoverings and religious symbolism (including dress) or references when in government buildings, schools and so on. The Conservative governments were as hot on this as the socialists though. Sarkozy wasn't exactly an advocate of freedom of expression.

There was a weird case of a nun being refused a French driving license because she wouldn't remove her head veil to have the picture taken, presumably in a government building. The same applies to Skihs and Muslims etc though. The government has also, as far as I remember, banned facial coverings in public for security reasons. But it doesn't impact on other forms of religious symbols being worn in public places.