Pray NOW! Senate votes TODAY on defunding Planned Parenthood!

[KnightofChrist]

Youre doing the same thing bro

I'm able to answer your questions, I'm just not going to until you answer mine first. Legalized slavery and legalized abortion share many commonalities which is why I use the comparison, and I think you know this which is why you are avoiding answering the question. You don't want to admit your contradiction. We both know that if you were the same person you are today and old age slavery was legalized and funded by government you wouldn't argue against defunding it or criminalizing it. You would argue that slavery be defunded as well as be made illegal and the slaves be legal recognized as human beings.

[CrossCuT]

I'm able to answer your questions, I'm just not going to until you answer mine first. Legalized slavery and legalized abortion share many commonalities which is why I use the comparison, and I think you know this which is why you are avoiding answering the question. You don't want to admit your contradiction. We both know that if you were the same person you are today and old age slavery was legalized and funded by government you wouldn't argue against defunding it or criminalizing it. You would argue that slavery be defunded as well as be made illegal and the slaves be legal recognized as human beings.

I would argue that slavery IS something that would end due to legality. No slave would be legally obligated to stay on a farm doing slave labor; they would just leave and no farmer would be able to make them stay. The issue with abortion is different because the party that could leave cant. Thus legality would have no impact on whether or not the baby could choose to live or die so the issue still remains. We need to stop them before they happen which is addressing the core issues that plaque society and create this business opportunity for the abortion industry. Education. Poverty. Jobs. Well being etc etc etc. THAT will ultimately save lives, not the legality in this scenario. 

[KnightofChrist]

Youre doing the same thing bro.

 

But ill bite. I am not personally against criminalizing it/making it illegal etc etc etc, but I reject that proposal as the sole solution and one that nearly all Catholics pine over as the end all be all. I realize that while the legality has impact on peoples perceptions, it will not eliminate the issue and that is what I am interested in...eliminating it completely. In order to do that we need to address the reasons that cause it, the reasons that drive people to require the service. 

Your proposal is like approaching a ticking bomb and merely covering it up with something. What I am proposing is understanding the wiring in order to defuse it. I also realize the reality that we WONT make it illegal and we WONT defund it so its useless to even speculate on that front. 

I didn't notice you made an edit. The Catholics you are talking about don't exist, they are made up. There aren't any Catholics that make the proposal that the sole solution to abortion is to make it illegal. That's simply false or extremely hyperbolic at best.

Defunding and criminalization of abortion is part of the solution, not the sole solution, not the be all end all solution, I've not argued that. The analogy of the ticking time bomb is invalid. My proposal is to change the minds and hearts of those going out and laying their children on the bombs, but also stop the funding of the bomb makers and providers and make it illegal for them to make and plant the bombs.

I don't see how one could stop the bombs if the bomb makers are allowed to continue to receive funding making the bombs and I don't see how in the world that would ever be the wrong path to go down. Sure again not the be all end all but come on.

[KnightofChrist]

I would argue that slavery IS something that would end due to legality. No slave would be legally obligated to stay on a farm doing slave labor; they would just leave and no farmer would be able to make them stay. The issue with abortion is different because the party that could leave cant. Thus legality would have no impact on whether or not the baby could choose to live or die so the issue still remains. We need to stop them before they happen which is addressing the core issues that plaque society and create this business opportunity for the abortion industry. Education. Poverty. Jobs. Well being etc etc etc. THAT will ultimately save lives, not the legality in this scenario. 

But people still claim ownership over other people today, even in America. The flesh trade is big business and people, especially women and young girls get caught up in it. So legality hasn't stopped it, it has suppressed slavery, limited it, but not ceased it. The slave traders cannot operate in public freely nor do they receive millions and millions of dollars in funds. 

Abortionist can freely operate in public and they do receive funding. You cannot seriously believe that shutting down ever single abortion clinic and stopping the flow of money to those clinics would not greatly reduce the amount of abortions. That competently defies reason. It would also help the pro-life movement greatly if the government recognized that unborn children are persons. The government should be a big part of educating people that abortion kills a person. Rather than denying they are persons, allowing and funding their murders.

 

[CrossCuT]

I dont even know what we are arguing about anymore. Seems like we agree.

[puellapaschalis]

I dont even know what we are arguing about anymore. Seems like we agree.

[KnightofChrist]

Ok since we are spinning off onto different topics now,

Abortion is a form of slavery, it's not a different topic.

 

do you think guns should be illegal so that we can cut down on the number of gun deaths in the US which is higher than any other country in the world?

No, the tool is not to blame the murderer is to blame. Surgical tools are used to abortion children, surgical tools shouldn't be illegal, murdering children should be illegal. People who murder other people with whatever form of weapon should be punished. We can make tools illegal but the murderers would find other tools. Murderers should never be allow to murder freely and they should be punished servilely.

 

Or maybe is it that legality isnt the problem, the problem is deep seeded issues on society?

Murder is a legality and societal problem. Our society has a profound disrespect for the very foundations of life because our government and society approves of the legal mass-murder of children. A nation that kills so much of its own young will also show no respect for other lives.

 

Or do you think banning them will solve our woes? Surely you support the complete ban on fire arms since they are used as tools for killing? 

As I stated, no, banning the tools wouldn't solve our woes. However if it were legal to murder someone with a gun and the murderers were funded by the United States government one way to sufficiently reduce the amount of murders would be to cease the funding and criminalize murdering someone with a gun.

I dont even know what we are arguing about anymore. Seems like we agree.

I thought we did, but I'm confused by your saying defunding and criminalization isn't the way to go. I agree it's not the only way means, but it's on the right path along with other means, rather than the 'wrong path'.

[Gabriela]

This so needs to go to the Debate Table.

[Socrates]

Frankly, it's a crying shame that opposition to murdering babies in the womb,chopping them into pieces, and selling the dismembered body parts is seen as simply a "conservative" or a "Republican" issue.

This isn't a conservative or a liberal political issue, but an issue of basic humanity.   Every decent human being should be against this disgusting and vile atrocity.

Shame on every congressman (of any party) who voted against defunding those butchers.  And shame on every person who voted for those politicians, knowing  full well their steadfast support for baby-killing.

You'd think the very least we could do is stop forcing people to fund those gruesome murderers with their tax dollars, but apparently, even that modest action is too "extreme" for our government-worshiping bleeding hearts.

And all the vast increases in the federal government's borrowing/taxing/spending money to throw at public "education," and other "social" spending over the past 50+ years (under both parties) has done exactly jack squat to end abortion, and there's no reason to think that even bigger spending increases will have that result.  Anyone who buys that line of tripe has watched far too much political advertising.

[Didacus]

They voted it down Majority wanted to defund it but they needed 60.

Just the fact that a vote occurred is a small victory in itself.  Who would have thought just a year ago that such a vote would have occurred.

Do not despair...

Frankly, it's a crying shame that opposition to murdering babies in the womb,chopping them into pieces, and selling the dismembered body parts is seen as simply a "conservative" or a "Republican" issue.

This isn't a conservative or a liberal political issue, but an issue of basic humanity.   Every decent human being should be against this disgusting and vile atrocity.

Shame on every congressman (of any party) who voted against defunding those butchers.  And shame on every person who voted for those politicians, knowing  full well their steadfast support for baby-killing.

You'd think the very least we could do is stop forcing people to fund those gruesome murderers with their tax dollars, but apparently, even that modest action is too "extreme" for our government-worshiping bleeding hearts.

And all the vast increases in the federal government's borrowing/taxing/spending money to throw at public "education," and other "social" spending over the past 50+ years (under both parties) has done exactly jack squat to end abortion, and there's no reason to think that even bigger spending increases will have that result.  Anyone who buys that line of tripe has watched far too much political advertising.

For things to change, hearts must change.

There is where the focus must be.

[Winchester]

"Forgive me for shocking you, but Mitch McConnell’s Planned Parenthood defunding was a fraud from the beginning. No government spending, no government program–let alone one so close to the demonic heart–is ever to be cut. So while the Cruz-Lee amendment could have passed with 51 votes, it was blocked by Mitch for one that needed 60 votes, which he knew were not there. Oh, and NB: the McConnell bill did not cut funding, just shifted it to “women’s health.”"--Lew Rockwell.