CrossCuT Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 (edited) No political movement has a hope unless hearts and souls are changed first. I don't really care about the red team vs blue team anymore. I don't trust the Republican war party when it comes to pro-life issues. But I do trust the Democrat party to follow its long history of crimes against humanity. Education, and charity to mothers and children will help reduce abortions. But defunding and making abortion illegal will also reduce abortions, that's simply logical. Without funds the abortion industry wouldn't have the money to abort people, and if it were illegal to abort people they wouldn't be able to operate freely in public and that would reduce abortions as well. The abortionist would be imprisoned like any other murderer and prevented to abort more people and that would reduce abortions. Sure abortions would still happen like murders still happen but funding and allowing murder increases murder. Really think about it, business X gets millions in funds and the blessing of government to freely sell its product but business Y gets no funds, but is fined, its operators charged and arrested on multiple felony counts of murder. Logically business X would be able to sell more of its product because it gets free money and is able to operate freely. While business Y would still probably sell its product to but at a greatly reduce production level than business X. Of course it will still happen even if it is made illegal and defunded; selling, buying, and using drugs is illegal but surprisingly it still happens. Is that simple logic? If there is a demand for a certain service so there will always be people to provide it. Increasing funding for education and aid programs will help decrease the demand for abortions thus weakening the entire abortion industry however republicans continue to cut these programs on the basis of "poor people are lazy leeches" Besides, some of the highest republican figures who actually had an opportunity to reduce funding didnt do it. John Boehner and Mitch McConnell both removed provisions for defunding planned parenthood in 2011 and September of this year. Not only that but even one of the GOP candidates for 2016 Rand Paul is super wishy washy about it. And thats only 3. They are all like that! They dont care about your abortion issue. We need to change things where it will be meaningful. Making it illegal not only wont work, but its the wrong path. We need to make core, fundamental changes to stop the festering at the surface; you cant just cut off the stain without removing the source because it will keep coming back. Edited August 3, 2015 by CrossCuT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicansoul Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Sexual immorality is the norm these days, so abortion will not go away, but we need to stop the only corporation who makes billions off of it. Go and change hearts, but In the meantime, we need to stop electing politicians who are dead set on propagating this murder and forcing EVERY AMERICAN to participate in the murder through their tax dollars. Obama made it clear while he was running for president that he was in Planned Parenthood's pockets and he would do everything in his power to give in to their demands. There is no argument which political party Planned Parenthood supports and favors and wants in power and that is the Democrat Party. You can't take politics out of it, because liberals forced abortion into the political sphere. So I think its ridiculous to try and argue that its not a political issue. It is. And of course politicians aren't going to save us, but they sure can stop the funding to this evil corporation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 (edited) Of course it will still happen even if it is made illegal and defunded; selling, buying, and using drugs is illegal but surprisingly it still happens. Is that simple logic? If there is a demand for a certain service so there will always be people to provide it. Increasing funding for education and aid programs will help decrease the demand for abortions thus weakening the entire abortion industry however republicans continue to cut these programs on the basis of "poor people are lazy leeches" Yes there is a demand for drugs that are currently illegal, yes making them illegal has not stopped their use. However it is simple logic to conclude if those drugs were made legal and the providers of those drugs were given millions of dollars in funds to sell their drugs, use of those drugs would increase. A large part of the social stigma against it would be lost, the providers would have more money to advertise, produce and sell their products, which would lead to more customers buying it, which would increase the use of those drugs. I still hate the red vs blue stuff, still the Republican Party may want to cut programs to the poor but the Democrat Party cuts out the very lives of the poor before they are even born. It's not hard to see which is the greater of two evils there. Besides, some of the highest republican figures who actually had an opportunity to reduce funding didnt do it. John Boehner and Mitch McConnell both removed provisions for defunding planned parenthood in 2011 and September of this year. Not only that but even one of the GOP candidates for 2016 Rand Paul is super wishy washy about it. And thats only 3. They are all like that! They dont care about your abortion issue. We need to change things where it will be meaningful. Making it illegal not only wont work, but its the wrong path. We need to make core, fundamental changes to stop the festering at the surface; you cant just cut off the stain without removing the source because it will keep coming back. Yeah Boehner and McConnell are two fake jackholes, I really don't know about Paul he does appear like jello. Those are just a few reasons I do not really care about red vs blue anymore. I agree there needs to be fundamental changes in the hearts and minds of the pubic for abortion to stop or be greatly reduced. However keeping the abortion industry legal and funded is a grave contradiction to have if we really want to stop abortion. What we are talking about is mass-murder and that should never be legal and that should never be funded. What is needed is both, both a change of minds and hearts AND defunding and making it illegal to murder a baby. If you believe funding education will lead to more educated persons why can't you see that funding abortion will lead to more aborted people? Edited August 3, 2015 by KnightofChrist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 They voted it down Majority wanted to defund it but they needed 60. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 To put it in a way that may be better understood, what if a Republican government not only cut educational program funds but stopped such funds altogether and made it illegal to learn how read or to be educated? Would that decrease or increase the amount of people who can read and are educated? Sure people would still learn to read and be educated but over all the numbers would decrease. Because lack of funding and it being illegal would greatly effect the educational industry in a negative way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriela Posted August 4, 2015 Author Share Posted August 4, 2015 (edited) I wish I had the power to prevent "my" threads from descending into this kind of political venom-spitting. I meant for this to be a prayer-and-update thread. Alas, no thread is truly "mine"... @Tony: Thank you for the (constructive) update! Edited August 4, 2015 by Gabriela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicansoul Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 Is it wrong that I want God's wrath to spill over these baby killers? I'm not much for praying for His mercy be upon them... It's been over 40 years. These babies are crying for His justice... seems like the ungodly are winning every fight... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 Is it wrong that I want God's wrath to spill over these baby killers? I'm not much for praying for His mercy be upon them... It's been over 40 years. These babies are crying for His justice... seems like the ungodly are winning every fight... [19] Revenge not yourselves, my dearly beloved; but give place unto wrath, for it is written: Revenge is mine, I will repay, saith the Lord. Vengeance is not for us, BUT, I think it is very clear that vengeance will be visited upon those who inflict such horrific evil. God's perfect justice of course will include retribution, as is fitting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vee Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 Is it wrong that I want God's wrath to spill over these baby killers? I'm not much for praying for His mercy be upon them... It's been over 40 years. These babies are crying for His justice... seems like the ungodly are winning every fight... Jesus came not for the righteous but for sinners, to save us from ourselves. He came for you and me, and them even when it boggles the mind . As Jesus told St Faustina "let them have recourse to my mercy while there is still time..." If you cant pray for them then pray for the grace to be able to pray for them, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrossCuT Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 Yes there is a demand for drugs that are currently illegal, yes making them illegal has not stopped their use. However it is simple logic to conclude if those drugs were made legal and the providers of those drugs were given millions of dollars in funds to sell their drugs, use of those drugs would increase. A large part of the social stigma against it would be lost, the providers would have more money to advertise, produce and sell their products, which would lead to more customers buying it, which would increase the use of those drugs. I still hate the red vs blue stuff, still the Republican Party may want to cut programs to the poor but the Democrat Party cuts out the very lives of the poor before they are even born. It's not hard to see which is the greater of two evils there. Yeah Boehner and McConnell are two fake jackholes, I really don't know about Paul he does appear like jello. Those are just a few reasons I do not really care about red vs blue anymore. I agree there needs to be fundamental changes in the hearts and minds of the pubic for abortion to stop or be greatly reduced. However keeping the abortion industry legal and funded is a grave contradiction to have if we really want to stop abortion. What we are talking about is mass-murder and that should never be legal and that should never be funded. What is needed is both, both a change of minds and hearts AND defunding and making it illegal to murder a baby. If you believe funding education will lead to more educated persons why can't you see that funding abortion will lead to more aborted people? None of that even matters because its not going to be made illegal. I dont care to speculate on things we can do nothing about when there is a better avenue to address the whole thing. We need to put our energy into things that will work. You already agreed that getting women and children out of poverty, increasing the access to education,etcetc would work and be greatly beneficial to society.As you can see neither republicans or democrats give two floops. So lets focus on treating the disease and not covering it up. I want it to end just as much as any of you on here but I am willing to take common sense steps towards a very very good goal. It doesnt help when half your army is running around on a dead battlefield trying to rewind time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 None of that even matters because its not going to be made illegal. I dont care to speculate on things we can do nothing about when there is a better avenue to address the whole thing. We need to put our energy into things that will work. You already agreed that getting women and children out of poverty, increasing the access to education,etcetc would work and be greatly beneficial to society.As you can see neither republicans or democrats give two floops. So lets focus on treating the disease and not covering it up. I want it to end just as much as any of you on here but I am willing to take common sense steps towards a very very good goal. It doesnt help when half your army is running around on a dead battlefield trying to rewind time. Whether or not mass-murder is legal or illegal matters. Whether or not mass-murder is funded and encouraged matters. I just don't see you making this same argument if we were the same people we are today and we lived in the old age of slavery in American. Could you honestly see yourself saying defunding and making slavery illegal is the wrong path? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrossCuT Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 (edited) Whether or not mass-murder is legal or illegal matters. Whether or not mass-murder is funded and encouraged matters. I just don't see you making this same argument if we were the same people we are today and we lived in the old age of slavery in American. Could you honestly see yourself saying defunding and making slavery illegal is the wrong path? Ok since we are spinning off onto different topics now, do you think guns should be illegal so that we can cut down on the number of gun deaths in the US which is higher than any other country in the world? Or maybe is it that legality isnt the problem, the problem is deep seeded issues on society? Or do you think banning them will solve our woes? Surely you support the complete ban on fire arms since they are used as tools for killing? Edited August 4, 2015 by CrossCuT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Credo in Deum Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 Ok since we are spinning off onto different topics now, do you think guns should be illegal so that we can cut down on the number of gun deaths in the US which is higher than any other country in the world? Or maybe is it that legality isnt the problem, the problem is deep seeded issues on society? Or do you think banning them will solve our woes? There should be stricter laws for those who obtain guns illegally, but the right to own a gun should not be taken away from responsible gun owners. Yet I'm looking forward to the mental gymnastics you're going to have to use to make this comparable to keeping abortion legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 Ok since we are spinning off onto different topics now, do you think guns should be illegal so that we can cut down on the number of gun deaths in the US which is higher than any other country in the world? Or maybe is it that legality isnt the problem, the problem is deep seeded issues on society? Or do you think banning them will solve our woes? Surely you support the complete ban on fire arms since they are used as tools for killing? I will not answer any question until you honestly answer the one I asked. Let's not divert the real issue, you use a talking point, not your reason, to argue that defunding and criminalization is the wrong path. Where else would you use this same talking point, because I highly doubt you would use it for old age slavery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrossCuT Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 (edited) I will not answer any question until you honestly answer the one I asked. Let's not divert the real issue, you use a talking point, not your reason, to argue that defunding and criminalization is the wrong path. Where else would you use this same talking point, because I highly doubt you would use it for old age slavery. Youre doing the same thing bro. But ill bite. I am not personally against criminalizing it/making it illegal etc etc etc, but I reject that proposal as the sole solution and one that nearly all Catholics pine over as the end all be all. I realize that while the legality has impact on peoples perceptions, it will not eliminate the issue and that is what I am interested in...eliminating it completely. In order to do that we need to address the reasons that cause it, the reasons that drive people to require the service. Your proposal is like approaching a ticking bomb and merely covering it up with something. What I am proposing is understanding the wiring in order to defuse it. I also realize the reality that we WONT make it illegal and we WONT defund it so its useless to even speculate on that front. Edited August 4, 2015 by CrossCuT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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