Ice_nine Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 I know this is sort of drifting off topic . . . before I came to phatmass I never cared or really worried much about my appearance nor cared about anyone else's (unless it's really egregious), nothing of the sort "distracted" me. Now almost every time I walk into a church what everyone is wearing is a major distraction. I've really internalized it because I'm like, you know what? I don't have enough anxiety in my life so let's just pile this on for added fun! Thanks internet So now I've learned a few things over the years. Feel free to add: 1. You should dress up for mass or else you love the president more than Jesus 2. But don't dress up too nicely, you'll tempt the men 3 You should wear a dress or skirt, but just don't show any knees or shoulders or . . . any joint for that matter unless you want to look like a whore. 4. Don't wear make-up. 5. Make sure your face isn't too ugly or you'll look like a slob, so maybe just a little bit of make-up 6. If you show your collarbone the wrath of God shall visit you 7. Don't wear anything to draw attention to yourself, but if everyone is whoring it up in their jeans and t-shirts it's OK to be a total anachronism and dress like you're from the 1950's. They obviously don't love Jesus as much as you. 8. Don't dress like you're poor (although this is never said, more so implied), and if you are actually poor and can't scrape up enough money for one nice outfit well, where are your priorities?! If you're not poor, you don't want people to THINK you're poor right? ew! 9. Wear a headcovering. 10. Don't wear a headcovering you will look weird. And then of course, we're told not to be vain and obsess about our looks lolololol cause that's a sin too. My Lord, a girl can't win here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seven77 Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 My reasons about disagreeing with makeup itself are given above - I don't know but its just what I felt in my heart. No one is obligated to listen to me clearly.I take the Saints more serious. But just for further thought I shared them Personally, if I had a wife, I would want her to wear make up and I would understand it as an act of love for God. For her sake, I would be offended if someone told her that they take the Saints more seriously, and that they implied that makeup can never be applied for love of God but at best is an imperfection. Again, as it has been said already, what is good for the goose is not necessarily good for the gander, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarysLittleFlower Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Unsure how st thomas can put jewelry and make up in a separate basket, if he did? Make ups a funny thing because i guess if the world is in a fallen state than perhaps we do not look how God intended us to, particularly after the point where we choose to sin with full knowledge and consent and still to a degree without knowledge and consent sin effects not only our emotional, mental and spiritual state of life but also our physical perhaps, and light make up may not actually be vain but just magnifying and repairing that which is supposed to be, of course if one goes overboard it can be some kind of self hate thing which is not good, although i am not promoting pride of self. Not saying my synopsis is correct but just another possible view point, and of course not all have to eat apples although apples are good in the sense that even where make up a good and wholesome thing not all are bound to where it, as not all are bound or have the ability for whatever reason to do the rosary daily and some cant do lengthy novenas and only can manage the very basics without fault, sorry not meaning to compare make up to a novena but if done correctly in the light of christ i guess just about anything can be made holy, like having your car, house blessed once a year. I guess one could get there make up blessed after wearing in the hope that there make up may attract a soul for Christ to be evangelized. Unsure how st thomas can put jewelry and make up in a separate basket, if he did? Make ups a funny thing because i guess if the world is in a fallen state than perhaps we do not look how God intended us to, particularly after the point where we choose to sin with full knowledge and consent and still to a degree without knowledge and consent sin effects not only our emotional, mental and spiritual state of life but also our physical perhaps, and light make up may not actually be vain but just magnifying and repairing that which is supposed to be, of course if one goes overboard it can be some kind of self hate thing which is not good, although i am not promoting pride of self. Not saying my synopsis is correct but just another possible view point, and of course not all have to eat apples although apples are good in the sense that even where make up a good and wholesome thing not all are bound to where it, as not all are bound or have the ability for whatever reason to do the rosary daily and some cant do lengthy novenas and only can manage the very basics without fault, sorry not meaning to compare make up to a novena but if done correctly in the light of christ i guess just about anything can be made holy, like having your car, house blessed once a year. I guess one could get there make up blessed after wearing in the hope that there make up may attract a soul for Christ to be evangelized. The fall affected our appearance but we can bear with that to learn virtue. the features God gave me are still mine. In the Resurrection we would be perfected but in a true way not a fashion way where people need outlined eyes. It would be a spiritual holy beauty though the body would be perfect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AccountDeleted Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 (edited) Certainly there are things I felt Jesus wanted for me and me specifically. I don't talkabout those things much or at all. Iwondered if its the same with makeup but then Ifound those quotes. My idea maybeis that the purpose of the existence of makeup is not like purpose of other stuff. Is itfundamentally flawed? I gave reasons I thought about in my post just above this one. Jewellery doesn't change the actual features and intent determines if its vain. Intent matters in makeup but I wonder if as an invention its flawed. Thatwould mean intentions may excuse someone from terrible vanity in the heart but wouldnt excuse makeup itself. I also notice lots of hidden vanity in me in little things i make excuses for. My reasons about disagreeing with makeup itself are given above - I don't know but its just what I felt in my heart. No one is obligated to listen to me clearly.I take the Saints more serious. But just for further thought I shared them Make up has been around for a very long time, and over the centuries attitudes have been very hostile to it - "painted women". But women wearing slacks has also been a source of scandal - almost blasphemous. The thing is that in our society and culture (Western especially), a person is not considered well groomed unless they at least have a modicum of make-up. There is a big difference between the way make-up is applied for the stage, for a woman who is selling sexual favours, for a woman who is a Mum (if she has time or energy to apply any) and for a woman who works in the corporate world. Wearing some make-up is considered well-groomed. I think if you want to carry your non-vanity ideal to extremes, then you shouldn't be shaving your arm pits or legs, or wearing deodorant or even grooming yourself at all - just let it be as God has made you - no vanity at all. After all, didn't He create you perfectly? What I see here is a case of scruples about appearance. But no one can be totally oblivious to how they look because we are not unconscious creatures. The way to give glory to God is not to obsess in either direction - too much or too little of a focus on appearance. Take note, be well dressed and well groomed as appropriate according to the time, place and situation, and then stop thinking about it. You probably obsess more about NOT wearing make-up than I do about the times I do wear make-up. And having been a nun several times, I have no attachment to wearing it or not (I was a Carmelite and we didn't even have mirrors in the convent) but I am aware that there are times for me when it is appropriate to wear a little. If vanity is such a worry to you, maybe take all your mirrors away, like they do in Carmel. I can live with or without them now, but I use them to make myself look appropriate for the situation and then forget about it. Vanity doesn't lie in the make-up, but in the heart. Edited August 2, 2015 by nunsense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarysLittleFlower Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/cw/post.php?id=737 I like this article - and this quote... “And when you fast, do not look gloomy like the hypocrites, for they disfigure their faces that their fasting may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you fast, anoint your head and wash your face, that your fasting may not be seen by others but by your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.” And I especially like her conclusion at the end... And so I come to a close on an article I shouldn’t have had to write in the first place. The idea that something like make-up, which not only encourages daily habits in personal care but could also potentially help our physical appearance in matters of evangelization, be anything like the commenter implies is, frankly, just silly. And it points to the greater point that we tend, even with the best of intentions, to assume insecurities and faults in others that aren’t there to begin with. Perhaps it is a great reminder that we must simply worry about our own journeys and less about what I assume to be God’s judgment on another. I don'tunderstand how the passage applies because in not wearing makeup I'm not disfiguring ourselves to look gloomy. We just look natural. We can smile personal habits can be formed inother ways... As for evangelization I think a holy life is enough and the Saints didnt look fashionable but helped many convert I believe we can look presentable without makeup.. We can just look neat clean and normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not The Philosopher Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Next question: Catholic men growing beards - is it a vanity that should be discouraged? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarysLittleFlower Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Unsure anyone should be scandalized by others wearing make up though, that could actually be a kind of scruples, but i guess the same as tatts, dont hang out with someone that is scandalized by make up wearing make up. idk. Don't offer someone that doesn't like to eat meat meat, definitely. And perhaps don't eat meat around them, i'm unsure where the line is in all of this but we must respect others right to like or dislike something and try our best in st pauls words to become all things to all people. others wearing makeup doesn't make me lose my peace.or tempted to wear it. I just don't wear it. Just speaking for myself people are different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seven77 Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Next question: Catholic men growing beards - is it a vanity that should be discouraged? Nah, the real question is, Catholic men who shave-- is it a vanity that should be discouraged? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarysLittleFlower Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 I know this is sort of drifting off topic . . . before I came to phatmass I never cared or really worried much about my appearance nor cared about anyone else's (unless it's really egregious), nothing of the sort "distracted" me. Now almost every time I walk into a church what everyone is wearing is a major distraction. I've really internalized it because I'm like, you know what? I don't have enough anxiety in my life so let's just pile this on for added fun! Thanks internet So now I've learned a few things over the years. Feel free to add: 1. You should dress up for mass or else you love the president more than Jesus 2. But don't dress up too nicely, you'll tempt the men 3 You should wear a dress or skirt, but just don't show any knees or shoulders or . . . any joint for that matter unless you want to look like a whore. 4. Don't wear make-up. 5. Make sure your face isn't too ugly or you'll look like a slob, so maybe just a little bit of make-up 6. If you show your collarbone the wrath of God shall visit you 7. Don't wear anything to draw attention to yourself, but if everyone is whoring it up in their jeans and t-shirts it's OK to be a total anachronism and dress like you're from the 1950's. They obviously don't love Jesus as much as you. 8. Don't dress like you're poor (although this is never said, more so implied), and if you are actually poor and can't scrape up enough money for one nice outfit well, where are your priorities?! If you're not poor, you don't want people to THINK you're poor right? ew! 9. Wear a headcovering. 10. Don't wear a headcovering you will look weird. And then of course, we're told not to be vain and obsess about our looks lolololol cause that's a sin too. My Lord, a girl can't win here! I think we can care about these things for ourselves and seek God's will in them but just resist any judgemental feelings to others. I don't think it means those topics mean nothing. (Like how to dress or act). We can just combine it with charity in the will even if temptations come. I mean if its judgingthoughts - we can still consider the objective topics. An analogy: Before I wasCatholic I barely noticed sins and imperfections. Now I notice them. Does that mean they're not important or I shouldn't be Catholic? Not at all. I just need to focus on my relationshp with God and fight any uncharitable thoughts about others. I can excuse their hearts and not judge intentions but still care about the topics. Maybe ALL Catholics should be tattooed - with the words: "Make-up is bad" ?? Lol Personally, if I had a wife, I would want her to wear make up and I would understand it as an act of love for God. For her sake, I would be offended if someone told her that they take the Saints more seriously, and that they implied that makeup can never be applied for love of God but at best is an imperfection. Again, as it has been said already, what is good for the goose is not necessarily good for the gander, etc. If I had a husband I'd actually feel hurt if he thought I should wear makeup. That's like saying "I don't think you're beautiful enough for me as you are". Jewellery doesn't change the features.. But makeup does. Make up has been around for a very long time, and over the centuries attitudes have been very hostile to it - "painted women". But women wearing slacks has also been a source of scandal - almost blasphemous. The thing is that in our society and culture (Western especially), a person is not considered well groomed unless they at least have a modicum of make-up. There is a big difference between the way make-up is applied for the stage, for a woman who is selling sexual favours, for a woman who is a Mum (if she has time or energy to apply any) and for a woman who works in the corporate world. Wearing some make-up is considered well-groomed. I think if you want to carry your non-vanity ideal to extremes, then you shouldn't be shaving your arm pits or legs, or wearing deodorant or even grooming yourself at all - just let it be as God has made you - no vanity at all. After all, didn't He create you perfectly? What I see here is a case of scruples about appearance. But no one can be totally oblivious to how they look because we are not unconscious creatures. The way to give glory to God is not to obsess in either direction - too much or too little of a focus on appearance. Take note, be well dressed and well groomed as appropriate according to the time, place and situation, and then stop thinking about it. You probably obsess more about NOT wearing make-up than I do about the times I do wear make-up. And having been a nun several times, I have no attachment to wearing it or not (I was a Carmelite and we didn't even have mirrors in the convent) but I am aware that there are times for me when it is appropriate to wear a little. If vanity is such a worry to you, maybe take all your mirrors away, like they do in Carmel. I can live with or without them now, but I use them to make myself look appropriate for the situation and then forget about it. Vanity doesn't lie in the make-up, but in the heart. it would be disobedient for me in my intent to wear makeup after I felt I shouldn't. Actually all I do is to be clean and neat looking. I don't do the fashion stuff. To me grooming is just looking neat. so brushing teeth using deodorant brushing and arranging hair. Many things in our society seem superfluous to me. Maybe I don't look as impressive as others but I'm OK with that I just try to look well ordered and neat. I don't think much about appearance now beyond making sure I'm neat and modest - unless I get distracted by the culture. That's just me. I don't obsess about wearing makeup anymore because I have accepted my natural look over time - it was only a struggle in the beginning Oh well I think I've said all I have to say on the topic and otherwise I'd just be going around in circles I see my view is the unpopular minority, lol that's OK though. God bless you all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seven77 Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 If I had a husband I'd actually feel hurt if he thought I should wear makeup. That's like saying "I don't think you're beautiful enough for me as you are". Jewellery doesn't change the features.. But makeup does. No, not my wife though, she would understand my statement in its proper context, and she would know that I think that she is beautiful inside and out, with makeup or without. Doesn't makeup enhance features? How can it change them, like physically alter them? Wow… there are so many things I have yet to learn about these mysterious creatures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 (edited) It is far simpler than some people want to make it. Dress well, dress modestly. Do not be a slob, do not be vain, and think about other people. Everything to glorify Christ first, then to help each other.Edit: And if one feels called to go above and beyond, by all means. Edited August 2, 2015 by Nihil Obstat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 (edited) Jewelry does change the appearance especially in excess. What if fashion,make up and jewlary can be used to love others? In the sense of making oneself more appealing and allowing a greater ease of comfort for another person to be around therefore opening up the gates to revealing the truth in our action and words. And totally not conforming to society, that would be a selfish act to fit in, this is a totally different concept of selflessness. Cloud nine helping you feel fine, coz i love you kind of thing. Edited August 2, 2015 by Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 This, for example, is incorrect: Xerxes would have been rather a bad Catholic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarysLittleFlower Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 (edited) No, not my wife though, she would understand my statement in its proper context, and she would know that I think that she is beautiful inside and out, with makeup or without. Doesn't makeup enhance features? How can it change them, like physically alter them? Wow… there are so many things I have yet to learn about these mysterious creatures. I think it does sort of change them.. People don't come with black lines around the eyes and eye shadow people look quite different with eye makeup particularly. You can tell its the same person but still different. If the wife didn't wear makeup would you tell her she should? I think many women would find that hurtful though - if they don't wear makeup at all or on a particular day and their husband suggests it? Edited August 2, 2015 by MarysLittleFlower Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not The Philosopher Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 This, for example, is incorrect: Xerxes would have been rather a bad Catholic. He's probably not getting that job at Wal-Mart either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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