Fr. Ripperger: NeoCatholicism vs. Traditionalism

[Nihil Obstat]

What about all the adult baptisms that are people who don't claim to be Catholic? Those don't matter? I understand that the Catholic Church is the full truth but just because one is Catholic doesn't mean they're a better Christian. The exclusive attitude from a lot of Catholics seems like nothing more then pride to me.

Jesus Christ established one Church. He did not establish, nor did He wish to be established any Church besides His own. Protestantism is an offence against Christ, even if individual members are not culpable for it.

[Nihil Obstat]

Protestantism is founded in rebellion, heresy, schism, and pride. Guess whose claws pull the strings to bring that about. God necessarily cannot be the author of an heretical sect. If it was not of God, who does that leave?

[Guest]

I'm just saying there are a lot of good devoted humble Christians who don't identify as Catholic. I really doubt Jesus is disgusted with them because they're not Catholic.

[Nihil Obstat]

 

I'm just saying there are a lot of good devoted humble Christians who don't identify as Catholic. I really doubt Jesus is disgusted with them because they're not Catholic.

Certainly. And we hope that those who search sincerely do find the Truth. But if they do not, we hope and pray that it was not through their own fault. But certainly Jesus Christ does not desire Protestantism, and abhors its sinful nature, notwithstanding variables of individual culpability 

[Maggyie]

Yes Josh, there are many Protestant  organizations that are doing a better  job than the Catholic Church at getting non Christians baptized. I am just addressing the RCC since out discussion is about what is wrong in our church specifically. In fact we could probably learn a great deal from them about how to bring people Jesus (ooo how dare I suggest this). 

[MarysLittleFlower]

It might be good to remember that Protestant's Baptism is actually a grace that ultimately comes from the Church too... Everything good in Protestantism is actually from Catholicism like the Bible and Baptism because the Church safeguards these things and existed before Protestantism. As for God working in the lives of Protestants, sure He does, and I was once Protestant myself and sought Himthere. But this is because of His Mercy, Our Lady's prayers, etc, despite the errors of Protestantism. And God is also trying to bring them to His Church and gives different graces according to each... Not all realize at the same time or in the same way. God knows about all this I do not. 

But here is a revelation to Blessed Anne Catherine Emmerich showing the seriousness of the situation... Its in.the public domain. 

When God had created the first Adam, he cast a deep sleep upon him,
opened his side, and took one of his ribs, of which he made Eve, his
wife and the mother of all the living. Then he brought her to Adam, who
exclaimed: 'This now is bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh... Wherefore
a man shall leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife, and
they shall be two in one flesh.' That was the marriage of which it is
written: 'This is a great Sacrament. I speak in Christ and in the Church.'
Jesus Christ, the second Adam, was pleased also to let sleep come upon
him--the sleep of death on the cross, and he was also pleased to let his
side be opened, in order that the second Eve, his virgin Spouse, the
Church, the mother of all the living, might be formed from it. It was
his will to give her the blood of redemption, the water of
purification, and his spirit--the three which render testimony on earth--and
to bestow upon her also the holy Sacraments, in order that she might be
pure, holy, and undefiled; he was to be her head, and we were to be her
members, under submission to the head, the bone of his bones, and the
flesh of his flesh. In taking human nature, that he might suffer death
for us, he had also left his Eternal Father, to cleave to his Spouse,
the Church, and he became one flesh with her, by feeding her with the
Adorable Sacrament of the Altar, in which he unites himself unceasingly
with us. He had been pleased to remain on earth with his Church, until
we shall all be united together by him within her fold, and he has
said: 'The gates of hell shall never prevail against her.' To satisfy his
unspeakable love for sinners, our Lord had become man and a brother of
these same sinners, that so he might take upon himself the punishment
due to all their crimes. He had contemplated with deep sorrow the
greatness of this debt and the unspeakable sufferings by which it was
to be acquitted. Yet he had most joyfully given himself up to the will
of his Heavenly Father as a victim of expiation. Now, however, he beheld
 all the future sufferings, combats, and wounds of his heavenly Spouse;
in one word, he beheld the ingratitude of men.

The soul of Jesus beheld all the future sufferings of his Apostles,
disciples, and friends; after which he saw the primitive Church,
numbering but few souls in her fold at first, and then in proportion as
her numbers increased, disturbed by heresies and schisms breaking out
among her children, who repeated the sin of Adam by pride and
disobedience. He saw the tepidity, malice and corruption of an infinite
number of Christians, the lies and deceptions of proud teachers, all
the sacrileges of wicked priests, the fatal consequences of each sin,
and the abomination of desolation in the kingdom of God, in the
sanctuary of those ungrateful human beings whom he was about to redeem
with his blood at the cost of unspeakable sufferings.

The scandals of all ages, down to the present day and even to the
end of the world--every species of error, deception, mad fanaticism,
obstinacy and malice--were displayed before his eyes, and he beheld, as it
were floating before him, all the apostates, heresiarchs, and pretended
reformers, who deceive men by an appearance of sanctity. The corrupters
and the corrupted of all ages outraged and tormented him for not having
been crucified after their fashion, or for not having suffered
precisely as they settled or imagined he should have done. They vied
with each other in tearing the seamless robe of his Church; many
illtreated, insulted, and denied him, and many turned contemptuously
away, shaking their heads at him, avoiding his compassionate embrace,
and hurrying on to the abyss where they were finally swallowed up. He
saw countless numbers of other men who did not dare openly to deny him,
but who passed on in disgust at the sight of the wounds of his Church,
as the Levite passed by the poor man who had fallen among robbers. Like
unto cowardly and faithless children, who desert their mother in the
middle of the night, at the sight of the thieves and robbers to whom
their negligence or their malice has opened the door, they fled from
his wounded Spouse. He beheld all these men, sometimes separated from
the True Vine, and taking their rest amid the wild fruit trees,
sometimes like lost sheep, left to the mercy of the wolves, led by base
hirelings into bad pasturages, and refusing to enter the fold of the
Good Shepherd who gave his life for his sheep. They were wandering
homeless in the desert in the midst of the sand blown about by the
wind, and were obstinately determined not to see his City placed upon a
hill, which could not be hidden, the House of his Spouse, his Church
built upon a rock, and with which he had promised to remain to the end
of ages. They built upon the sand wretched tenements, which they were
continually pulling down and rebuilding, but in which there was neither
altar nor sacrifice; they had weathercocks on their roofs, and their
doctrines changed with the wind, consequently they were for ever in
opposition one with the other. They never could come to a mutual
understanding, and were forever unsettled, often destroying their own
dwellings and hurling the fragments against the Corner-Stone of the
Church, which always remained unshaken.

As there was nothing but darkness in the dwelling of these men, many
among them, instead of directing their steps towards the Candle placed
on the Candlestick in the House of the Spouse of Christ, wandered with
closed eyes around the gardens of the Church, sustaining life only by
inhaling the sweet odours which were diffused from them far and near,
stretching forth their hands towards shadowy idols, and following
wandering stars which led them to wells where there was no water. Even
when on the very brink of the precipice, they refused to listen to the
voice of the Spouse calling them, and, though dying with hunger,
derided, insulted, and mocked at those servants and messengers who were
sent to invite them to the Nuptial Feast. They obstinately refused to
enter the garden, because they feared the thorns of the hedge, although
they had neither wheat with which to satisfy their hunger nor wine to
quench their thirst, but were simply intoxicated with pride and
self-esteem, and being blinded by their own false lights, persisted in
asserting that the Church of the Word made flesh was invisible. Jesus
beheld them all, he wept over them, and was pleased to suffer for all
those who do not see him and who will not carry their crosses after him
in his City built upon a hill--his Church founded upon a rock, to which he
has given himself in the Holy Eucharist, and against which the gates of
Hell will never prevail.

Bearing a prominent place in these mournful visions which were
beheld by the soul of Jesus, I saw Satan, who dragged away and
strangled a multitude of men redeemed by the blood of Christ and
sanctified by the unction of his Sacrament. Our Divine Saviour beheld
with bitterest anguish the ingratitude and corruption of the Christians
of the first and of all succeeding ages, even to the end of the world,
and during the whole of this time the voice of the tempter was
incessantly repeating: 'Canst thou resolve to suffer for such ungrateful
reprobates?' while the various apparitions succeeded each other with
intense rapidity, and so violently weighed down and crushed the soul of
Jesus, that his sacred humanity was overwhelmed with unspeakable
anguish. Jesus--the Anointed of the Lord--the Son of Man struggled and
writhed as he fell on his knees, with clasped hands, as it were
annihilated beneath the weight of his suffering. So violent was the
struggle which then took place between his human will and his
repugnance to suffer so much for such an ungrateful race, that from
every pore of his sacred body there burst forth large drops of blood,
which fell trickling on to the ground. In his bitter agony, he looked
around, as though seeking help, and appeared to take Heaven, earth, and
the stars of the firmament to witness of his sufferings.

Source: 

http://archive.org/stream/thedolorouspassi10866gut/10866.txt

 

[Guest]

Im inspired by Christians like Lecrae, Trip Lee, an some others who aren't well known. Most of them are black. Not trying to make it about race but it is what it is. These guys are on fire for Christ and just because they're not Catholic doesn't change anything. Cause after all they are saved by GRACE THROUGH FAITH. To even imply that they are "less Christian" because they aren't Catholic is offensive. Their relationships with Christ and their faith in Him is rock solid. And it shows through their lives and ministries. Yeah I hope they become Catholic but Jesus obviously isn't aggravated they haven't and I'm honestly curious if The Holy Spirit is even nudging them to do so. Because their lives are 100% a living testimony to God yet they aren't Catholic. Hmmmm.

Edited July 30, 2015 by Guest

[MarysLittleFlower]

Why do you assume that God isn't drawing these people to the Church or hoping to? When I was Protestant I felt a strong love for God and sought Him and I didn't think I should be Catholic. Yet eventually I was shown very clearly that God wants liturgy and Sacraments and that I was missing out on much. It doesn't mean He wasn't in my life. But I had errors in mythinking too. 

By the way I believe I converted because of Our Lady's prayers and a Catholic friend was praying the Divine Mercy chaplet for me daily. I didn't know.

I also remember I felt unease sometimes with being where I was but ignored it and no one knew. Even if I looked like a strong Protestant. We can't know others souls or state of heart but its also an error to just assume that all Protestants are going towards salvation - that was said in the Syllabus of Errors. We can't judge individuals. But if they reject dogma and then resist grace to believe the Church and dogma that is dangerous. 

[Guest]

Why do you assume that God isn't drawing these people to the Church or hoping to? When I was Protestant I felt a strong love for God and sought Him and I didn't think I should be Catholic. Yet eventually I was shown very clearly that God wants liturgy and Sacraments and that I was missing out on much. It doesn't mean He wasn't in my life. But I had errors in mythinking too. 

Im not saying He's not. I'm just saying these guys are sold out for Christ and their lives show it. I can't imagine God having any sort of disappointment in them because they aren't Catholic. If it was that urgent I would guess the Holy Spirit would make it clear and evident to them that they HAVE to become Catholic ASAP and be a Traditionalist. Yet that doesn't seem to be the case. 

Edited July 30, 2015 by Guest

[Anomaly]

For some, the Religion is their God. 

[Catlick]

I can't imagine God having any sort of disappointment In them because they aren't Catholic.

Maybe we should stop seeing God as a cosmic social worker who is fine with people as long as they're not nasty. Our God is a jealous god. And the road to Him is a narrow one, as His Son says. 

Never underestimate how disappointing we are when judged with the standard of God's justice. Thank God there is mercy. But mercy isn't something you're entitled to after you dropped in your 50 cents. And mercy is certainly not going to come at you quicker when you're outside of the Catholic Church. 

[Guest]

I'm going to block you so I can't see your post. The more I read from you the more seriously I consider joining a non denominational church.

[Catlick]

For some, the Religion is their God. 

For some, a high regard for obeying 'everything I [Christ] have commanded you', is a form of idolatry. In a mild form this is Protestantism, in a strict form Nihilism. 

I'm going to block you so I can't see your post. The more I read from you the more seriously I consider joining a non denominational church.

Why are you even on a Catholic forum when you get so worked up over disagreement with your non-Catholic statements?

[Guest]

Please, stop calling people racists.

Edited July 30, 2015 by Guest
Slander is not compatible with Catholicism. I can guarantee you God hates it.

[Anomaly]

 

Why are you even on a Catholic forum when you get so worked up over disagreement with your non-Catholic statements?

Josh is a passionate man.   Also, he, like you, and everyone that posts here at Phatmass struggle to decipher the nuances of what is "meant" vs what you "said".  If you read why dUSt has this phorum, you'd understand that Josh is more than welcome to post and disagree.