Catlick Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Reminds me of a congregation of religious sisters I know. Lovely (habited) sisters who teach and I think -nurse and never expressed anything *strange* (although I've never gotten into a really deep theological discussion, but we did do scripture studies together), but did express that their community doesn't study anything written from before Vat II. Try finding contemporary Catholic clergymen who dare quote the pre-Vaticanum II theologians/Popes/Councils on the necessity of the conversion of the Jews... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggyie Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 How does it miss the point? I doubt Father became a priest in order to spend tons of time defining the relative conservativism of 2 virtually identical groups of Catholics. There is an extremely urgent situation developing in the Western world which needs everyone's full efforts. Fathers commentary will only be read by Catholics. If he would like to still have readers 50 years from now I think he should refocus. Note all the times Jesus uses the word magisterium. This isn't to say the magisterium and its interpretation are not important. But it's not the point. Jesus is the point of all that. If we are spending our energy trying to find differences between 2 extremely similar groups eventually there will not be anyone left to care. The unchurched and unbaptized are often scandalized and confused by efforts like Fathers's. The two groups he defines have the same creed, baptism, hierarchy, sacraments, devotions etc. We look silly to the pagans when we twist ourselves in knots balkanizing they Church, not just into liberals and conservatives but finer gradations of the two. Not to mention the word "neoconservative" is not a Catholic term, it is imported from a 20th century American political movement. In context, the opposite of "neoconservative" is not "traditionalist," it's "paleo-conservative." since the church is not an American political movement it's inappropriate to try to apply these meaningless labels to her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted July 28, 2015 Author Share Posted July 28, 2015 Yeah, but the entire point of the article is that the labels are not meaningless, and that only one represents authentic Catholicism in its fullest sense. And that the loss of this distinction is a major part of the current crisis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomaly Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Gotta strain those gnats out. Who wants to drink bugs in their wine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catlick Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 If we are spending our energy trying to find differences between 2 extremely similar groups eventually there will not be anyone left to care. The unchurched and unbaptized are often scandalized and confused by efforts like Fathers's. The two groups he defines have the same creed, baptism, hierarchy, sacraments, devotions etc. We look silly to the pagans when we twist ourselves in knots balkanizing they Church, not just into liberals and conservatives but finer gradations of the two. The unchurched and unbaptized are generally unaware of Traditionalists (one of the two groups mentioned by Fr. Chad) even existing. They know about liberals who criticize the contraception ban, they know about conservatives coming to the defense of the Vatican's voice. Anything that's on the right of how the Vatican currently speaks, is simply off the radar, like I guess orthodox Marxist critics of the regime are in North Korea. By the way, Balkanizing the Church - didn't the Church Fathers do the same by waging theological war on heretics? These heretics presented a theology that seemed a slightly different shade of orthodoxy, but the Church Fathers knew what was down the road, i.e. complete apostasy. Isn't that basically what has happened in the 20th century, with many a Modernist theologian confessing the creed and the sacraments but ending up a complete apostate? The Church would greatly profit from another round of heresy hunting a la Pius X. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 (edited) Ecclesiastical tradition comprises all of those things that are not intrinsic to the Deposit of Faith but which form the heritage and patrimony of the work of previous generations graciously passed on by the Church to subsequent generations for their benefit. Because it is extrinsic to the Deposit of Faith, ecclesiastical tradition is also called extrinsic tradition, examples of which include the Church’s disciplinary code as set out in canon law and non-infallible teachings of the ordinary Magisterium. This would include such things as those contained in apostolic exhortations and encyclicals in which infallibility is not enjoyed – such as, for example, when Pope Leo XIII in Immortale Dei asserts that the Church is a perfect society. So the ordinary magesterium can teach non-infallibly? amesome article so far. Edited July 28, 2015 by Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarysLittleFlower Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Try finding contemporary Catholic clergymen who dare quote the pre-Vaticanum II theologians/Popes/Councils on the necessity of the conversion of the Jews... Our parish does the traditional prayers for their conversion but its FSSP.. Reminds me of a congregation of religious sisters I know. Lovely (habited) sisters who teach and I think -nurse and never expressed anything *strange* (although I've never gotten into a really deep theological discussion, but we did do scripture studies together), but did express that their community doesn't study anything written from before Vat II. I always wonder why people come to have this view.. I mean I don't know why the Sisters only read the new documents. But there is a lot pre V2 that is extremely useful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted July 28, 2015 Author Share Posted July 28, 2015 Nobody ever said otherwise Tab. Thank you for once again demonstrating your utter lack of understanding of that issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrossCuT Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Gotta strain those gnats out. Who wants to drink bugs in their wine? Is this the TL:DR version of what Nihil posted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 (edited) Is this the TL:DR version of what Nihil posted? Not an accurate one. Edited July 28, 2015 by KnightofChrist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomaly Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Is this the TL:DR version of what Nihil posted? sorta NOT. It's seasoned with TWO tablespoons of snark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrossCuT Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 sorta NOT. It's seasoned with TWO tablespoons of snark. Thats the impression I got. But in all seriousness I did TRY to read it. I zoomed my screen so the tiny text wouldnt make my eyes buldge so much but it was ehhhhhh. Another dude in the church trying to turn it into an exclusive club by splitting hairs over these deep meanings behind things I didnt much care for. But hey, if its food for thought for people great on ya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 !@@! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrossCuT Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 !@@! Are those bulgy eyes?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted July 28, 2015 Author Share Posted July 28, 2015 Is this the TL:DR version of what Nihil posted? Read it and find out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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