Fr. Ripperger: NeoCatholicism vs. Traditionalism

[dominicansoul]

I didn't read every word of the article, and I'm probably wrong, but I feel this is what the priest is getting at...

 

A few months ago, I was driving home from a Saturday Evening Vigil Mass with my 90 year old dad...He sat very quietly for a bit as I drove down the highway....

It seemed to me he was very upset about something so I asked him what was the matter...

"I am not sure...but...was that a Catholic Mass?  Where is the Church today?  Is God pleased with what we offer Him?  Sometimes I feel we aren't Catholic anymore and that anything goes..."

 

All my life, my father has lamented the state of the Church after Vatican II.  He's not one of these sedavacantists break-away "i belong to the last remnant of the True Church" types... but he definitely sympathizes with their struggle...and for good reason, because somewhere along the way, in our modern Church, we have lost touch with the Splendor of God.  We have lost sense of the Majesty of God.  We have lost all reverence to what is Sacred about God.  And until our Liturgies go back to addressing God as He Truly IS in all His Majestic Glory of the Church, we will continue to have lukewarm parishes.  

 

I think this is probably what this priest is getting at, that somewhere between all the in-fighting and heterodox philosophies that seem to strangle members of our Church, we've lost touch with an authentic worship of God.  The Mass we attended is pretty conservative, granted, it had the same marks of the post-Vatican experimentation (such as excessive use of "Extraordinary Ministers" of the Eucharist, no silence after Holy Communion but "announcements" and blessings of those celebrating various milestones in their lives.)  But it left me and my dad with a feeling that somehow, it isn't enough for God, that we are only giving Him our least and not our most...   Once the Church comes back to the an authentic Catholic worship of God in their parishes will you see a revival of zeal and less ignorance...

 

I think in all honestly we can "label" people only in the way Christ Himself did, you either have those who are burning with zeal for Him, or the lukewarm.  Sadly, in today's Catholic Church, I would say the majority is lukewarm.... especially in what I've witnessed in my own parish, where knowledge of the Faith is extremely low, and apathy runs rampant.  I'm talking about the adults, so you can imagine how their children are.  Their poor kids are every bit as culturally secular as you can be... (in other words, they support everything contrary to Church teaching that is in fashion these days....)  And when you try to teach them what the Church says about these issues, they come away with a complete rejection of that teaching because they have been infused with the culture around them.

...and about Protestantism...I think that's most of the Church's problem after Vatican II... it tried to be too Protestant in its worship, and look where we are today... and Protestant worship service is nothing compared to the Liturgy of the Eucharist, but because of all the changes in the Liturgy where the focus came off the central Figure of the Body of Christ and upon us being the Body of Christ, Catholics have lost sense of all the Sacredness present at Mass...We have forgotten that Heaven itself joins us in our worship, (I tried teaching this at my parish and they thought I was delusional.)   I can't help but think the saints in heaven cringe at how we celebrate Mass sometimes... giving God our least instead of our most...

[Guest]

I hate this new feature where it combines post.

Credo I hope you start doing a better job as a Mediator of Meh. Your bias is showing to much. Not cool.

So everyone is Lukewarm except the few really really good Catholics? Gotcha.

So dominicansoul everyone is Lukewarm except the few really really good Catholics? Gotcha.

Screw this new feature lol

I hate this new feature where it combines post.

Credo I hope you start doing a better job as a Mediator of Meh. Your bias is showing to much. Not cool.

So everyone is Lukewarm except the few really really good Catholics? Gotcha.

So dominicansoul everyone is Lukewarm except the few really really good Catholics? Gotcha.

Screw this new combing post feature lol

What is going on with Phatmass? 

[Guest]

It's combining post and quoting stuff I didn't quote and doubling what I wrote.

[Ash Wednesday]

Don't look at me, I just got here. 

Quite frankly, if I catch anyone posting a racist picture even in jest again, I will ban them for a month. I have no tolerance for that kind of garbage.

[Guest]

No talking about Credo. I get called out for calling Catlick a racist yet the first racist photo Catlick post just gets conveniently deleted so no one can see it was ever posted. Not edited with a warning just completely deleted.

Edited August 1, 2015 by Guest

[dominicansoul]

Faith in Jesus Christ leads to salvation. Being Protestant doesn't in itself lead to salvation anymore then being Catholic leads to salvation. A sincere faith in Christ that leads to a life of love and repentance leads to salvation.

 

But what does "Faith in Jesus Christ" entail, if not to follow His every word?  And to live by His every word?

Your Protestant friends may have zeal, but in all honesty, they don't have the Fullness of Faith.  Their churches don't teach what Christ taught in its fullness.

For example, I work with plenty of zealous protties, non-denoms and fundies at work.  Their love for Christ is always on display there.  BUT get down to the brass tacks, and they will totally disturb you.  For example, a young lady who used to work in our office came by with her children.  When she left, the protties, fundies and non-denoms started saying things like,  "Thank God for birth control!"  They weren't joking, either...

Seems like just a "surface" faith to me....because what they've done is created their own false image of Christ, one that they are comfortable with and where they can live as they wish and still be saved...

Sometimes you will see their external commitment to Christ isn't exactly what you think it is... there is only One Church that leads you to Christ.  Christ Himself said that you must eat His Flesh and Drink His Blood in order to have life.  These poor protties have rejected the Eucharist.  

Hopefully on your friends' journeys, they will discover the Catholic Church... it doesn't help them when Catholics tell them, "we're all the same, and we will all wind up with Jesus in heaven, blah blah blah."  That almost happened to Scott Hahn on his journey into the Church, a Catholic priest told him that!!  Thank God he followed his intellect and sought counsel with another priest, who then led him into full communion with the Catholic Church.  

And sure, what I have just described about my protestant coworkers could be said of plenty of people who call themselves Catholic, but just because you call yourself Catholic doesn't make you one...nor does this disobedience by members of the Catholic Church make the Church any less True.  

[Catlick]

...and about Protestantism...I think that's most of the Church's problem after Vatican II... it tried to be too Protestant in its worship, and look where we are today... and Protestant worship service is nothing compared to the Liturgy of the Eucharist, but because of all the changes in the Liturgy where the focus came off the central Figure of the Body of Christ and upon us being the Body of Christ, Catholics have lost sense of all the Sacredness present at Mass...We have forgotten that Heaven itself joins us in our worship, (I tried teaching this at my parish and they thought I was delusional.)   I can't help but think the saints in heaven cringe at how we celebrate Mass sometimes... giving God our least instead of our most...

The latent Protestantism in the Second Vatican Council is often lamented by trad Catholics, but they often don't know that only the progressive kind of Protestantism was present there. The progressive Protestant theologians pretty much agreed with their Catholic counterparts on the fundamental questions of ecclesiology. Thus interconfessional debates were limited to instrumental issues - how to reach an already agreed-upon goal. Seen from this perspective the eucumenic and liturgical parts of the Second Vatican Council was a joint interconfessional progressive effort to overcome orthodoxy. 

I suspect orthodox Protestant theologians - some of whom greatly admired the Roman Catholic Church's steadfast opposition to theological liberalism - were not invited because they were actually closer to Trent and Vaticanum I in their thinking than the Catholic progressives were. Would've made the periti bunch look ugly. 

[Guest]

Faith in Jesus Christ to me means believing who He says He is and believing He died for your sins and repenting of them and walking in love. It means knowing all your good works are like filthy rags in the sight of God and only with Christ will we be accepted by the Father. If you choose to believe Jesus is going to tell 90 % of Catholics and 95 % of Protestants to "depart from me I never knew you" that's fine. That's your choice. I pray like hell you're wrong but obviously you're free to believe that. I dont.

Edited August 1, 2015 by Guest

[dominicansoul]

Faith in Jesus Christ to me means believing who He says He is and believing He died for your sins and repenting of them and walking in love. It means knowing all your good works are like filthy rags in the sight of God and only with Christ will we be accepted by the Father. If you choose to believe Jesus is going to tell 90 % of Catholics and 95 % of Protestants to "depart from me I never knew you" that's fine. That's your choice. I pray like hell you're wrong but obviously you're free to believe that. I dont.

so good works are filthy rags?  That's not what Jesus Christ taught... jus' sayin'

 

 

[Guest]

Good works apart from Christ are like filthy rags. 

In Christ they are key and no believer should be without them.

I like a Traditional Mass that is reverent. That'd the kind of Parish I prefer. As long as it doesn't include judging me on what I wear or judging me if I don't receive on the tongue or kneel. Although I rarely receive Communion so that's not a big problem.

[Gabriela]

Good works apart from Christ are like filthy rags. 

In Christ they are key and no believer should be without them.

I like a Traditional Mass that is reverent. That'd the kind of Parish I prefer. As long as it doesn't include judging me on what I wear or judging me if I don't receive on the tongue or kneel. Although I rarely receive Communion so that's not a big problem.

I'm confused. At a TLM you have to kneel and receive on the tongue or the priest won't give you communion. (Although I guess he'd give to an elderly or infirm person who couldn't kneel, but always on the tongue.)

[Nihil Obstat]

I'm confused. At a TLM you have to kneel and receive on the tongue or the priest won't give you communion. (Although I guess he'd give to an elderly or infirm person who couldn't kneel, but always on the tongue.)

Yes. I have seen very elderly people who cannot kneel, and of course they are accommodated however they need. A handful of times I have also seen younger, not infirm people attempt to receive in the hand or while standing, and they were instructed to kneel and/or more their hands away.

[Guest]

I'm confused. At a TLM you have to kneel and receive on the tongue or the priest won't give you communion. (Although I guess he'd give to an elderly or infirm person who couldn't kneel, but always on the tongue.)

O ok then count me out for wanting to go to a Parish like this. I guess I meant a Parish where the music isn't over loud speakers and a bunch of clapping. I like it quiet and chill.

[Credo in Deum]

No talking about Credo. I get called out for calling Catlick a racist yet the first racist photo Catlick post just gets conveniently deleted so no one can see it was ever posted. Not edited with a warning just completely deleted.

I deleted the post because no one needs to see the picture.  Catlick also wasn't posting it to be racist but rather a smart-a$$, so I deleted the entire post and created a post to call him out on it and tell him if he does it again, then I will warn him officially.  I also didn't leave the picture up because given some members love for drama they would have taken the post out of context, typical, and would have started a never ending derailment of the original post.  You don't like how I Mediator of Meh? Well that's fine.  I'm sorry you don't like it, but unfortunately Josh, I have the entire site to think about, not just you.

[Seven77]

Good works apart from Christ are like filthy rags. 

In Christ they are key and no believer should be without them.

I like a Traditional Mass that is reverent. That'd the kind of Parish I prefer. As long as it doesn't include judging me on what I wear or judging me if I don't receive on the tongue or kneel. Although I rarely receive Communion so that's not a big problem.

I'm reminded of something that St. Therese says, “in the sight of God, all our good works are like dirty rags.” ( paraphrasing here). Of course, she meant that apart from Christ that is what they are like... however, as St. Paul says in Ephesians, we were created to walk in the good works that God had desired for us to do--- so, with Christ, in and through him, all our actions are divinized. The Christian life is about imitating Christ--- yes, but more importantly it is about living Jesus Christ. Catholics have more means of doing this more efficiently, however, those who knowingly resist cooperating with grace, are more culpable than Protestants.

I also want to add that I also prefer a reverent Mass… but I like to dress for the occasion-- not to show off and appear all pious, but because I am meeting my Lord and Savior. How would I dress if I were meeting the president?