Question about Benedictines

[MarysLittleFlower]

I was reading the website of the Benedictines of Mary and they say "Her profession, by which she vows Obedience, Stability and Conversion of Life, is within the context of a very symbolic and very rich, traditional ceremony before the Offertory verse of the Mass." This made me wonder about the Vows for Benedictines... For Conversion of life for instance do they separate them into two vows of Poverty and Chastity? How are the Benedictine vows different from other communities? Also it says the Perpetual Vows are said in the presence of the Bishop... Is this something that is done with every order or only Benedictines? I realised I don't know! Thank you source: http://benedictinesofmary.org/content/formation

[Egeria]

Conversatio morum (conversion of life) is generally understood to include poverty and celibacy, but they are assumed rather than explicitly mentioned, at least as far as I'm aware.

It's important to understand that the focus on vows is a relatively late thing and the idea of "vows of religion" only really became fixed in the thirteenth century. The imagery before then (that still persists in the monastic tradition) was far more of monastic consecration and of committing oneself to a life, rather than to specific vows. Thus, while the Rule of St Benedict does speak of promising "stability, fidelity to monastic life, and obedience," this was not a profession formula in the same way that it became for some.

Regarding bishops, this probably varies according to monastery and congregation, but the monastic consecration needs to be administered by either a bishop (or possibly a priest delegated by him - I'm not sure) or an abbot. As far as I'm aware, the vows are usually received by the abbess. 

A good introduction to the vows from a Benedictine perspective is Centered On Christ: A Guide to Monastic Profession by Dom Augustine Roberts, ocso.

[MarysLittleFlower]

Thanks! This is something that clearly I know very little about because I was under the impression that vows are a monastic consecration. What is a monastic consecration and what orders do it? Do active orders have it too? Or is it just Benedictines and older orders? 

Is the monastic consecration the way that religious are different from lay people who make a private vow? (As in, both have vows but in religious life they are public and they are consecrated too). How is this  similar or different from the consecration of virginity, I mean is a monastic consecration like being set apart for God alone? (Yet without virginity being mentioned specifically, or being a requirement)

Edited July 24, 2015 by MarysLittleFlower

[Feankie]

I've been to several PCPA final vows ceremonies.  A Bishop has been present at each.   I was crying so much (it was so beautiful and moving and I knew the Nuns well) I'm not sure what all he did in terms of the actual vows besides blessing the ring, etc.  The Abbess, or course, was very involved with the nun making her vows in her hands.

Edited July 24, 2015 by Francis Clare

[Starets]

Conversatio Morum Suorum certainly includes chastity and poverty but goes beyond that as well. It is a difficult phrase to translate into English. Generally it means to live the monastic life with fidelity and that is how somne communities interpret it. It includes the idea of conversion as a lifelong process. Conversatio is often used to translate the Greek word "Askesis" into Latin, thus meaning "Asceticism" or the monastic life in general. It can also mean "conversation" as in a conversation with God involving both listening and speaking. I hope that hasn't thoroughly confused you now

[John Paul]

??I think conversion of life to be poverty and chastity because not most people practice that.

Edited July 24, 2015 by John Paul

[Benedictus]

As far as I know independent Abbey's acquire certain canonical rights. The status of an Abbot, as an example, is comparable to a Bishop in certain respects. A Bishop doesn't need to be present for Monks vows etc. However, a Bishop or an Abbot can be present when nuns of a recognised Abbey make final vows (or another delegate of the Bishop, such as the Vicar of Religious).

But not all institutes that call themselves Benedictine have this status and there are different governance patterns for some; apostolic sisters may well be an example.

In terms of Benedictine monastics, it's a designated life expressed in faithful adherence to the rule in the first place (and how the rule is interpreted by their community constitutions). It's clear from the rule that a community would be monastic, single, community bound etc. So the focus is on converting more fully into monastic living and the vows express that quest. 

In other institutes the vows are more the foundational aspect and the constitutions then build up to express the essence of the life (usually in general), if it so can be said, as this life tends to vary more greatly across time and place.

Edited July 24, 2015 by Benedictus

[Egeria]

Thanks! This is something that clearly I know very little about because I was under the impression that vows are a monastic consecration. What is a monastic consecration and what orders do it? Do active orders have it too? Or is it just Benedictines and older orders? 

Is the monastic consecration the way that religious are different from lay people who make a private vow? (As in, both have vows but in religious life they are public and they are consecrated too). How is this  similar or different from the consecration of virginity, I mean is a monastic consecration like being set apart for God alone? (Yet without virginity being mentioned specifically, or being a requirement)

MLF, I hesitate to say much definitely as I am rather distanced from it now. But I don't think that apostolic religious have it, and I'm not sure about the mendicant Orders either, given that they were founded when these things were starting to change. (Sr Mary Catharine would know, but I can't seem to tag her). I know that the Cistercians do and I presume that the Benedictines do although, as Benedictus notes, that might vary according to different types of Benedictines. So, no, this isn't about the distinction between religious and lay people, but between older traditions and newer ones... (For the record, and understandably given the period it emerged from, the imagery of consecration is also closer to the Orthodox understanding. Although there are vows involved, monastic tonsure is something that you receive, rather than something you do).

[Sister Leticia]

Also it says the Perpetual Vows are said in the presence of the Bishop... Is this something that is done with every order or only Benedictines?

I don't know about Benedictines, and whether these sisters are typical, but for apostolic sisters a bishop certainly isn't essential for a profession of vows. In over 20 years and dozens of profession ceremonies here and in other countries, for RSCJ and friends in other congregations, I can only remember two professions where Mass was presided over by a bishop. One was an RSCJ profession where the sister knew the bishop well from her home diocese - so he wasn't the bishop of the diocese where she was professed.

What is essential though is that the recognised superior - the Superior General or Provincial or monastic superior - is there to receive the vows on behalf of the congregation and the Church. In the case of a new foundation then someone like the bishop or designated priest would receive the vows on behalf of the Church, as the new community doesn't yet have someone of its own canonically able to do this.

 

[truthfinder]

There's probably a good chance that the involvement of a bishop has to do whether or not the vows are solemn or simple. 

[Nunsuch]

Well, of course, Benedictines are monastic, and not "active," and take their distinctive vows. Unfortunately, for many years, in the US, Benedictine women were forced either to take the un-Benedictine "poverty, chastity, obedience" vows--or these were actually added on to the Benedictine formulary. [This was done by unsympathetic and/or ignorant bishops.] 

There are a couple of very good books on this--and how the nuns eventually were able to restore their Benedictine identity. These are: Judith Sutera, True Daughters: Monastic Identity and American Benedictine Women’s History (Achison, KS: Privately printed, 1987); Ephrem Hollermann, The Reshaping of a Tradition: American Benedictine Women, 1852-1881 (St. Joseph, MN: Privately printed, 1994).

 

[Sponsa-Christi]

There's probably a good chance that the involvement of a bishop has to do whether or not the vows are solemn or simple. 

In established religious communities with a canonical superior, a bishop isn't necessary at all even for a solemn profession.

A lot of women's religious communities do seem to have a custom of having a bishop preside at professions. But in those cases, it's the religious superior, not the bishop, who receives the vows. I think the custom of having a bishop present at a profession is a good example of how women's religious life has tended to "borrow" the imagery and traditions originally associated with the consecration of virgins. (For the consecration of virgins, a bishop is strictly necessary, as only a bishop can confer that consecration.)

In particular, the Benedictines of Mary tend to borrow the imagery of the consecration of virgins more heavily than any other community I know of! I think the even borrow whole phrases from the Rite of Consecration to a Life of Virginity. 

Without trying to criticize them, I'm not quite sure how I feel about that, actually. On the one hand, Benedictine nuns do have a historic connection with the consecration of virgins. But on the other hand, it seems sort of weird to me that their profession ceremony would be almost-but-not-really the Rite of Consecration to a Life of Virginity. To me, it seems like it would be better if they either: 1. just went ahead and decided that they wanted to have the consecration of virgins for their nuns, and then petitioned the competent authority to grant them this privilege; or 2. decided to focus more specifically on what it is they actually do do, i.e. make solemn monastic profession. 

[Nunsuch]

Sponsa-Christi, you are assuming it was the women's CHOICE to have a bishop present. In the US in the 19th century, at least, it was typically the BISHOP insisting on jurisdiction where he really didn't have any. But, for most communities, this couldn't get resolved so long as all active communities were extra-canonical, which they were until Conditae a Christo in 1900.

[Sponsa-Christi]

Sponsa-Christi, you are assuming it was the women's CHOICE to have a bishop present. In the US in the 19th century, at least, it was typically the BISHOP insisting on jurisdiction where he really didn't have any. But, for most communities, this couldn't get resolved so long as all active communities were extra-canonical, which they were until Conditae a Christo in 1900.

I was thinking more about modern-day communities who chose to carry on the custom of having a bishop present for professions (which I think for many communities is a good and praiseworthy custom!) I was just observing that this did seem to be a common liturgical custom, and was noting from where this custom probably originated.

You're right that bishops' jurisdiction over religious communities can be a thorny and complicated issue. But that's really not what I was trying to bring up.

[Nunsuch]

That's fine. I just wanted to point out that there is a historical context for even current behavior. It's the historian in me.