Back after a long time and discerning

[Innocent]

Hi, all!

I am not sure if people here remember me. I used to be an irregular poster three years ago. Though I have not posted anything in the recent past, I have been following the goings-on in the Phorum irregularly off and on. You all have been in my prayers.

I am now trying to discern my vocation. I am at present pursuing a terminal degree in research. But the thought that God might be calling me to some other state of life is very persistent in my heart. I can no longer ignore it. I have invested a lot of time/energy/effort in building my academic/research career. But I have done nothing concrete towards discerning whether God is calling me to some other state of life. I want to change this before it is too late.

The options that attract me are being a numerary in the Opus Dei (I am already a co-operator) or becoming a secular priest. I am not currently much attracted to joining a religious order. I have spent too much time thinking about this matter in my mind and have got nowhere. I think it is now high time I did something concrete like requesting admission in a seminary or at The Work.

I'll elaborate in later posts. I thought I'd write a small post to "jump into the pool" so to speak. Many anxieties and uncertainties are crowding my mind. I am looking for prayers and sound advice in my discernment journey.

Thanks.

Yours in Christ,

Innocent

 

Edited July 22, 2015 by Innocent

[marigold]

Well first of all, welcome back!

[Spem in alium]

Hello (and welcome back)! 

The first thing I want to make clear: are you at all considering postponing or giving up your study so you can discern? If so, I do advise against this. The fact of the matter is, at the moment, research is your vocation  It is where you have been called to be at this moment in time, and it is something you need to see through (in my opinion). Besides, there's no reason why you can't study and discern at the same time. I did, and sure, it was hard sometimes, but there was nothing that meant I couldn't do it.

And remember, it's never too late for God.  He is very patient with us, and He calls us gently and invitingly. He never forces us to rush or make hasty decisions, but always leads us at a comfortable pace. 

Yes, we can spend too much time thinking and put off actually taking the next step, but it's very important to make the step peacefully and gently, without haste. You still sound as though you are deliberating between two things, without arriving at a sure answer as to where you need to go. I think what may help is considering what draws you to each vocation (numerary or secular priest) and then consider which of these brings you the greatest peace of heart. Perhaps you would like to share those things with us, or write them down. God is present in that peace.

Another point: do you have a spiritual director, or someone you can speak to about discernment issues? I think that would be helpful for you.

Be assured of my prayers.  

[Innocent]

Thanks for the welcome back.

 

Thanks for taking the time to write a response. I'll attempt to answer a few of your questions.

 

Hello (and welcome back)! 

The first thing I want to make clear: are you at all considering postponing or giving up your study so you can discern? If so, I do advise against this. The fact of the matter is, at the moment, research is your vocation  It is where you have been called to be at this moment in time, and it is something you need to see through (in my opinion). Besides, there's no reason why you can't study and discern at the same time. I did, and sure, it was hard sometimes, but there was nothing that meant I couldn't do it.

Seeing a doctorate through could easily take me 5 to 7 years, and I have just registered 6 months ago. And I am already almost 30. I suppose this is why there is an urgency in my mind. At every stage (Bachelor's degree, Master's degree, contract position, registering for PhD) I struggled towards the next opportunity since it was available and I didn't want to pass it up though I never had much clarity that this particular career path was where God wanted me to be. I am doing reasonably well (but not really great) in my research work but am not sure if this particular place where I am working is good for me. I don't find much peace here. Someone I met online in a Catholic forum I was very active in around 5 years back once remarked to me, "I feel that a vocation is an idea that God will make clearer in your mind, not by opening doors but by closing them."

Didn't Reginald Garrigou-Lagrange drop his medical studies to join the Dominicans?

However, I recall that C.S. Lewis says something similar to what you are saying in his speech titled "Learning in Wartime"

"A man's upbringing, his talents, his circumstances, are usually a tolerable index of his vocation. If our parents have sent us to Oxford, if our country allows us to remain there, this is prima facie evidence that the life which we, at any rate, can best lead to the glory of God at present is the learned life."

But does this apply to those who are wondering if God has been calling them elsewhere? Or does this mean that I should consider the opportunity to continue using the skills and knowledge that I've gained as one of the factors to look for in discerning a vocation?

In that case, this is what attracts me to being a numerary in the Opus Dei I could continue being in research/teaching, if convenient for the local centre of the Work. The main factors that attract me to being a secular priest are the blessing of being able to bring Christ to the faithful through the sacraments and pastoral service. Also, I am someone who can be very strict with myself but am not very comfortable when being controlled strictly by someone else. I guess this is one reason why I am attracted more towards the secular priesthood than a religious order.

 

Another point: do you have a spiritual director, or someone you can speak to about discernment issues? I think that would be helpful for you.

 

 I am in contact with priests and numeraries from the Opus Dei every two months. I also used to go to the parish priest in the town I used to stay previously (he turned out to have an STD in Spiritual Direction from the Angelicum) for spiritual direction.

 

 

[Spem in alium]

Ah, so you are at the beginning of your doctorate? I understand, having so much study ahead of you can be very daunting. So, if I understand you correctly, you feel as though you moved to each stage mainly because you could, but weren't really sure it was what you were meant to be doing? Why did you begin your doctorate (for similar reasons?)? And when you applied, were you discerning as strongly as you are now? Did you consider your vocational discernment at all? Sorry for all the questions, just interested.  I began my doctorate before I entered my congregation (I have about a year left before I graduate, God willing). It has brought me much joy, but also difficulty. It is possible to study and discern a religious vocation (while living in community) at the same time, but it's not without challenges, sacrifices, and pain sometimes. 

I will share something here: a few months ago, I was actually considering giving up my research because I was having concerns about my commitment to the congregation. I had a talk with my superiors, and they encouraged me to consider the big picture. How could my study be a benefit? How has it already benefited me and others? What do I want to get out of it? Where do I feel God is in my life, and what do I feel He wants from me? These, perhaps, are questions you may want to consider for yourself if you haven't already.

In terms of the quote you mention from C.S. Lewis, I think the essence lies in the words "the glory of God at present". Things of the world pass, change, and fade away, and this situation is only for a time. And yes, I think it is definitely important to use your skills and knowledge in discernment! Grow in an awareness of your talents, gifts, and interests, and try to search for a place or area you could use them which would ultimately bring glory to God and serve others with love and charity. Remember, your talents and abilities are themselves God-given -- He will show you how best to use them.  

Do the priests and numeraries know you are discerning? Are they able to give you advice or guidance?

[Gabriela]

Innocent, it's good to see you again.  

You sound like you're in a very similar situation as me (only you're male  ). I'm a third-year doctoral student and I began discerning the 1st year of my Master's program. Frankly, your C. S. Lewis quote frightens me. 

My advice to you is to discern your religious vocation NOW. Do not wait. I don't know what discipline you're in, but in mine, we have 7 years from prelims to dissertation defense. If we don't defend the diss within 7 years, we have to take prelims over again. Which, if you haven't been in coursework for 7 years, is a nightmare. But for discerning a religious vocation, this window is really, really good. It means you can take (up to) 7 years to go visit seminaries, try one out, etc. And if it doesn't work out, you can still go back to your PhD program and finish, and apply for jobs with your "fresh" PhD. In my discipline, having a "fresh" PhD is critical. If you don't have a permanent, tenure-track job within 3 years of getting the PhD, you're probably not ever going to get one. And 3 years is pushing it. So finishing the PhD and THEN discerning—especially if that means entering a seminary for a few years to try it out—is potentially catastrophic for you if you return to secular life and try to get an academic job with an "old" PhD.

Do your discernment over winter and summer breaks (that's when I visited communities), and take that window between prelims and diss if you need it. I've had communities tell me I ought to quit my job/studies to do something more menial while I discern. They didn't know what they were talking about. Academia gives you a LOT of flexibility and off-time to "go on vacation" (to communities/seminaries), like no other job would. So stay where you are and discern while you're there—hard as that is.

The exact "window" your program gives you between prelims and diss should be in your grad handbook.

I hope that helps. If you have any other questions a fellow discerning academic could answer, I'm happy to talk more.

[Innocent]

Dear Spem in alium,

Thanks for the reply. Once again, I answer your questions. (Gabriela, I thank you also. I shall answer your questions after a while. )

Ah, so you are at the beginning of your doctorate? I understand, having so much study ahead of you can be very daunting. So, if I understand you correctly, you feel as though you moved to each stage mainly because you could, but weren't really sure it was what you were meant to be doing? Why did you begin your doctorate (for similar reasons?)? And when you applied, were you discerning as strongly as you are now? Did you consider your vocational discernment at all? Sorry for all the questions, just interested.  I began my doctorate before I entered my congregation (I have about a year left before I graduate, God willing). It has brought me much joy, but also difficulty. It is possible to study and discern a religious vocation (while living in community) at the same time, but it's not without challenges, sacrifices, and pain sometimes. 

You know that cliched question every child gets asked: "What do you want to be when you grow up?"  Well, from the age of 10, I have consistently and unwaveringly answered that i wanted to be a college professor. (By the way, this is one question I have decided I shall never put forward to any child.) (But simultaneously at the back of my mind, from that same age I also had occasional thoughts of a vocation to the priesthood. But I never told anyone about those or explored them deeper. However those thoughts have stayed with me.)

I have been struggling with depression and anxiety since around 2005 during my bachelor's course. This has affected my academic performance quite a bit. Therefore, though the thought of vocational discernment has always been a steady presence in the background of my mind, I wanted to be sure that I was not considering this as an escape route from my problems. So I wanted to be stable enough before I considered my vocation. These days I have learned to function at a reasonable level in spite of the black dog that follows me around. So I became more serious about my vocational discernment. Also my increasing age was another factor prodding me to reconsider my vocation with increased seriousness. In retrospect, I am not so sure this was a great idea. After all, is it not said that God does not call the qualified, but qualifies the called?

So when I got the opportunity to register in a PhD programme, (before which I had to work in a research position for around 1.5 years) and I cleared the interview, I just went with the flow and registered. 

I suppose you are in a similar situation to my aunt who is a nun in a congregation that runs a college for women. She joined after her masters degree and did her doctorate after her final profession. But I am working in a govt. run research institute. I am not sure how easily things will work out

Do the priests and numeraries know you are discerning? Are they able to give you advice or guidance?

Yes, they do. In fact, I heard of the Work and read the complete works of St. Josemaria online before meeting them serendipitously. The spiritual direction I received through the Work was another important factor in boosting the strength of my vocational discernment. They have been very encouraging and have echoed your advice by telling me to take enough time and pray for clarity so that I can see where God is calling me.

Edited July 22, 2015 by Innocent

[Feankie]

Welcome back Innocent!  And glad to hear from you Spem!  I trust all is well   

I don't really have anything to add as I did my doctorate while married,  There's not a snowball's chance  in you-kmow-where for me to enter R. L. !!!  Although I am planning on going further with the Promise of Obedience in the Order of Malta as soon as I'm eligible.  

[Innocent]

Dear Gabriela,

 

Thanks for your reply. I am happy to connect with someone else in a similar situation. I shall attempt my responses.

 

My advice to you is to discern your religious vocation NOW. Do not wait. I don't know what discipline you're in, but in mine, we have 7 years from prelims to dissertation defense. If we don't defend the diss within 7 years, we have to take prelims over again. Which, if you haven't been in coursework for 7 years, is a nightmare. But for discerning a religious vocation, this window is really, really good. It means you can take (up to) 7 years to go visit seminaries, try one out, etc. And if it doesn't work out, you can still go back to your PhD program and finish, and apply for jobs with your "fresh" PhD. In my discipline, having a "fresh" PhD is critical. If you don't have a permanent, tenure-track job within 3 years of getting the PhD, you're probably not ever going to get one. And 3 years is pushing it. So finishing the PhD and THEN discerning—especially if that means entering a seminary for a few years to try it out—is potentially catastrophic for you if you return to secular life and try to get an academic job with an "old" PhD.

I'm in engineering. My programme's handbook says the max. duration is 5 years. And, knowing my adviser (guide) as I do, this will involve working full time, with no breaks.

Do your discernment over winter and summer breaks (that's when I visited communities), and take that window between prelims and diss if you need it. I've had communities tell me I ought to quit my job/studies to do something more menial while I discern. They didn't know what they were talking about. Academia gives you a LOT of flexibility and off-time to "go on vacation" (to communities/seminaries), like no other job would. So stay where you are and discern while you're there—hard as that is.

We have neither winter breaks nor summer breaks. I am not sure if we have those officially. At any rate, I haven't noticed any of the other students under my adviser taking breaks in winter or summer. I am lucky if I get a weekend when I don't have to be in the lab. Already I basically live in the lab. (In fact I am writing this from my work desk at local time 2343 hrs, having reported for work at 0900 hrs.)

The exact "window" your program gives you between prelims and diss should be in your grad handbook.

There is really not much window for me. In this setup, the adviser has almost full control, and the projects upon which the PhDs are based are externally funded and have regular deadlines. Thus there is no possibility of taking time-outs in the middle.

This is what is possible: I am currently at a govt. R&D institute as a full-time PhD student. I can quit the programme here and take up a teaching position at some college. (A Master's degree is sufficient for an assistant professor / lecturer position here. One would be eventually expected to get a PhD but it is sufficient to do that several years down the line.) This will give me more free time and flexibility. It would also give me added academic experience in my resume. If I discern into the Work or out of the priesthood, I can start a PhD, perhaps even part-time, while being a lecturer.

Thanks for the reply from a fellow academic.

 

Yours in Christ,

Innocent.

[Gabriela]

Dear Gabriela,

 

Thanks for your reply. I am happy to connect with someone else in a similar situation. I shall attempt my responses.

 

I'm in engineering. My programme's handbook says the max. duration is 5 years. And, knowing my adviser (guide) as I do, this will involve working full time, with no breaks.

We have neither winter breaks nor summer breaks. I am not sure if we have those officially. At any rate, I haven't noticed any of the other students under my adviser taking breaks in winter or summer. I am lucky if I get a weekend when I don't have to be in the lab. Already I basically live in the lab. (In fact I am writing this from my work desk at local time 2343 hrs, having reported for work at 0900 hrs.)

There is really not much window for me. In this setup, the adviser has almost full control, and the projects upon which the PhDs are based are externally funded and have regular deadlines. Thus there is no possibility of taking time-outs in the middle.

This is what is possible: I am currently at a govt. R&D institute as a full-time PhD student. I can quit the programme here and take up a teaching position at some college. (A Master's degree is sufficient for an assistant professor / lecturer position here. One would be eventually expected to get a PhD but it is sufficient to do that several years down the line.) This will give me more free time and flexibility. It would also give me added academic experience in my resume. If I discern into the Work or out of the priesthood, I can start a PhD, perhaps even part-time, while being a lecturer.

Thanks for the reply from a fellow academic.

 

Yours in Christ,

Innocent.

Oh, okay. Yeah, I know it's much harder for STEM people. In any case, I wish you much luck!

[Spem in alium]

Dear Spem in alium,

Thanks for the reply. Once again, I answer your questions. (Gabriela, I thank you also. I shall answer your questions after a while. )

You know that cliched question every child gets asked: "What do you want to be when you grow up?"  Well, from the age of 10, I have consistently and unwaveringly answered that i wanted to be a college professor. (By the way, this is one question I have decided I shall never put forward to any child.) (But simultaneously at the back of my mind, from that same age I also had occasional thoughts of a vocation to the priesthood. But I never told anyone about those or explored them deeper. However those thoughts have stayed with me.)

I have been struggling with depression and anxiety since around 2005 during my bachelor's course. This has affected my academic performance quite a bit. Therefore, though the thought of vocational discernment has always been a steady presence in the background of my mind, I wanted to be sure that I was not considering this as an escape route from my problems. So I wanted to be stable enough before I considered my vocation. These days I have learned to function at a reasonable level in spite of the black dog that follows me around. So I became more serious about my vocational discernment. Also my increasing age was another factor prodding me to reconsider my vocation with increased seriousness. In retrospect, I am not so sure this was a great idea. After all, is it not said that God does not call the qualified, but qualifies the called?

You sound very sensible. I think it's very good that you decided to really put effort into discerning your motivations. That's very important. And yes, I am a believer that God does qualify the called.   Before I entered religious life, someone told me that if I was meant to enter the convent, nothing in the world could keep me out, and if I wasn't meant to enter, then nothing in the world would get me in. God has great plans for us, plans beyond our understanding or comprehension. Most of the time, I am amazed at what He has done and what He is doing with me, a little labourer in His vineyard. 

So when I got the opportunity to register in a PhD programme, (before which I had to work in a research position for around 1.5 years) and I cleared the interview, I just went with the flow and registered. 

I suppose you are in a similar situation to my aunt who is a nun in a congregation that runs a college for women. She joined after her masters degree and did her doctorate after her final profession. But I am working in a govt. run research institute. I am not sure how easily things will work out

I am similar, yes. I was already about a year in to my doctorate when I entered. My Sisters were aware of my study commitments and were (and have been) very supportive. However, I won't deny it's been a challenge doing both (starting my formation, and working on my doctorate). It has meant, most of all, that I've had less time to commit more deeply to formation, which was disappointing at first. It's really something I've needed to discern greatly -- which is why it's very important not to make rash decisions, not to jump the gun, and always to consider things from a variety of perspectives. Discerning something like this improperly is more likely to mean you'll end up compromising one or the other. That's not to say you can't do both - I see no reason why you couldn't deepen your discernment while studying - but I have found it is something that does need to be approached with patience, prudence, and ultimately, trust in God.

Yes, they do. In fact, I heard of the Work and read the complete works of St. Josemaria online before meeting them serendipitously. The spiritual direction I received through the Work was another important factor in boosting the strength of my vocational discernment. They have been very encouraging and have echoed your advice by telling me to take enough time and pray for clarity so that I can see where God is calling me.

I'm very glad to hear you've had that support from them. Time is so important. And believe me, I know how tempting it is to want to just jump in right away. I had a few things happen during my application process which meant I needed to wait longer than normal...months longer...and that was very tough, because I just wanted to be in the convent living the life! But ultimately, I learned to pray for clarity, and to be patient. Doing those things is a wonderful way of allowing the Spirit to work. 

Welcome back Innocent!  And glad to hear from you Spem!  I trust all is well   

I don't really have anything to add as I did my doctorate while married,  There's not a snowball's chance  in you-kmow-where for me to enter R. L. !!!  Although I am planning on going further with the Promise of Obedience in the Order of Malta as soon as I'm eligible.  

Hello there! Life goes wonderfully for me. God is so good and blessing me every day. And so thrilled to hear about the Promises of Obedience!!! That's so exciting. I do believe my grandfather made those Promises several years ago.