How do you know if you know God

[superblue]

I was working the title around and finally came to what i wanted to get at .....  I was going to ask in the title is it possible to know God which came out to a yes, then i might have stumbled across how do we go about knowing God and i was like plbt. 

I think this title here... is probably very personally individualized.  But how does one discern if they know God at some kind of level.

The class that I am in now on Lectio Divina , I am not too super stoked on. Mainly because the instructor is suggesting that we have the ability in the now to not only know God but know God in a very intimate way.  An maybe that is true, but it seems to me that only happens when God gives that grace to an individual for a specific reason not to just sit on the sidelines of life. To me that level  one of those rarities in life... and it just kind of bummed me out a bit because I am like well, i don't have the stamina , I don't have 4 degrees like my instructor..... to actually get into some kind of nirvana state of entering into lectio divina that he made it sound like was necessary..... an i am wondering what others experience.

I mean there is a wrong way of going into lectio divina, half arsing it , not paying attention to what you are reading, and perhaps reading more for entertainment than to learn or be in a  state of prayer.....

 

I am kind of in a rush to put this together so if i can clarify more later i will.

[puellapaschalis]

This is a really good question, especially in connection with the practice of lectio, and I look forward to hearing your thoughts on it.

[truthfinder]

Well lectio divina should have four steps: lectio, meditatio, oratio, and contemplatio (read, meditate, pray, and contemplate).  The first three are ordinary steps and within the spectrum of everyone's capabilities (provided they aren't illiterate and are actually trying).  Contemplation itself is a gift; but that doesn't mean that we still can't know God in a personal way through the readings.  Hopefully this somewhat helps, or at least is directed at your question at all.

[Ice_nine]

what exactly is the definition of contemplation?

[superblue]

what exactly is the definition of contemplation?

good question, i am learning about it still , and am still not really specifically sure. I think we all know there is book answer. But the book answer I don't think really hits lectio divina ...  I always thought of contemplation as thinking and mulling around in ones head on spiritual things, scripture etc... but I am starting to come see that might be incorrect....

I took lectio divina to be , to read a part of scripture, from any where to a paragraph, to a sentence, or even just a word, and to then contemplate on that  ( which i thought meant " think " and or meditate / and then to try and understand the literal aspect of the reading and the spiritual side and to incorporate that into a personal experience  with Christ in that reading....

any beans, if i end up making any more sense out of what is going on i will be pleasantly surprised and also looking forward to more input.

I do though keep my journal with me when i read out of the bible for lectio divina,so i can write down questions, and or thoughts.... sometimes i go back to it but not too often......

 

[puellapaschalis]

@superblue, if you get a chance, read Michael Casey's Sacred Reading. It's a tough read and it's probably easier to grasp if you've got a few months' (or so) experience of daily lectio, but it's a really good treatment of the 'theory' as it were. It's continually in my 'currently (re)reading' stack.

[truthfinder]

  I always thought of contemplation as thinking and mulling around in ones head on spiritual things, scripture etc... but I am starting to come see that might be incorrect....

 

In a more common usage, yes this would be contemplation, but what you've described is 'meditation' according to the four parts. Contemplation has generally been described to me as mystical union. 

[superblue]

In a more common usage, yes this would be contemplation, but what you've described is 'meditation' according to the four parts. Contemplation has generally been described to me as mystical union. 

yeah see that mystical word; is a word that is just way way to vague for me, is too abstract or subjective.

but if that is the common usage, and then you are going by what you know, perhaps i am not that far off if there is not a solid answer that everyone goes by.

Edited July 22, 2015 by superblue

[HopefulHeart]

Superblue, I'd encourage you to treat contemplation as a conversation or interaction with Jesus rather than an intellectual exercise. Dialogue with the Lord and pay attention to how He responds in your mind and heart. As you pray more, you will come to recognize the voice of Jesus and you'll be able to develop a deeper (more mystical, if you will) communion with Him. Ask the Holy Spirit for inspiration. Remember also that the Lord knows your limitations and that He lovingly desires to know you, just as you seek to know Him.

Edited July 22, 2015 by HopefulHeart

[Gabriela]

This is an outstanding question. I think A LOT of people wonder this.

My answer is: Yes, it is absolutely possible to know God, though not perfectly in this life, as St. Thomas states in the Summa. But we can know Him in a way, to a degree. My personal experience of coming to know God has developed largely through my observation of how He acts in my life. By which I mean: how He inserts Himself into my life, where, when, with what outcomes, etc. Paying attention to that tells you A LOT about God, I think. Not doctrinally, of course, but in a personal way. That is, it tells you what kind of person He is.

As for contemplation: When I adapted my Master's thesis for publication, I came across a lot of prayer taxonomies, i.e., systems of categorization of prayer. Many of these drew upon traditional Catholic writings (of the saints, etc.). My impression from that research is that "contemplation", "meditation", and "adoration" are not agreed-upon terms. Depending on where you read them, they'll be used differently. And they're different in all the taxonomies. (Add in Protestant and non-Christian definitions and it gets really messy!)

In general, though, I think that truthfinder is correct that "meditation" is mulling over something: a Christian truth, a biblical passage, even a recent event in your life (to see how God was working in that), etc. Meditation is distinguished by silent mental activity and by that activity having roughly "linear" content, be it verbal or image-based. (The latter is where the definitions part ways.)

"Contemplation", on the other hand, while also silent mental prayer, is distinguished by more of an open listening. It's not as active as meditation. It sort of "empties the mind" (please don't freak out anti-Eastern people) to allow God more room to insert Himself, to give gifts of understanding and the like.

"Mystical union" is something else entirely and is 100% out of our control. It's a divine gift that often comes in prayer (in fact I can't think of any cases when it hasn't), but it's not something we can really try to attain. God gives it, and rarely at that, and that's all there is to it. You can arrive at mystical union in contemplation, but it's not the goal of contemplation necessarily, and most people who contemplate never receive that gift. So no worries about trying to achieve some kind of "nirvana" in contemplation!

Edited July 22, 2015 by Gabriela

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

I think i get the mystical union regularily, lol. Why, i know not, perhaps because i'm stoopid and need such petting to actually believe. Most of the rest of the time outside of scripture,prayer and meditation i'm kind of in a desert of spiritual aridity. 

Edited July 22, 2015 by Tab'le De'Bah-Rye

[reyb]

Christ made him known to me since knowing the real Christ is knowing God too. 

How do I know that I know God? God made it known to me thru his Christ.

Although I failed to recognize him and committed a crime again him during that day when God reveal his Christ to me, nevertheless... today, I can see clearly since he left me for a while. My Lord did it for me and I know, sooner or later, he will come again for me and for all of us who are waiting for him. (I am not referring to your historical Jesus because, I am referring to the other Jesus.)

How do I know that I know God? Because, I know my Lord while God alone can reveal his Christ.  .

 

   

 

Edited August 21, 2015 by reyb

[corban711]

What follows below was taken from a website, but was written by Guigo II, a Carthusian monk who explains Lectio Divina well, and describes what they mean by words like meditation and contemplation in simple terms and helps to understand the difference between the two:

 

 

Reading is careful study of [Sacred]  Scripture, with the soul’s [whole] attention:

Meditation is the studious action of the mind to investigate hidden truth, led by one’s own reason.

Prayer is the heart’s devoted attending to God, so that evil may be removed and good may be obtained.

Contemplation is the mind suspended – somehow elevated above itself – in God so that it tastes the joys of everlasting sweetness.

HAVING assigned descriptions to each of the four rungs, we must see what their functions are in relation to us.

THE FUNCTIONS of THESE AFOREMENTIONED RUNGS

FOR the sweetness of a blessed life:

Reading seeks;
meditation finds;
prayer asks;
contemplation tastes.

Reading, so to speak, puts food solid in the mouth,
meditation chews and breaks it,
prayer attains its savor,
contemplation is itself the sweetness that rejoices and refreshes.

Reading concerns the surface,
meditation concerns the depth
prayer concerns request for what is desired,
contemplation concerns delight in discovered sweetness.

[MarysLittleFlower]

I think it’s not necessary to have university degrees, human strength, etc, to reach to contemplation. All we need is just to spend time in meditation and seek love and humility and generosity towards God, and that is enough to dispose us to contemplation. Whether we receive it or not, is entirely up to God and it’s His gift. Contemplation can help to know God more intimately for sure, but if we don’t have it, we can know Him simply through faith… contemplation is not devoid of faith either. I don’t think it’s something complicated.. maybe we complicate it too much. God looks for simplicity

[Ice_nine]

I say "what's up God," and He says something witty back to me.