The fact of the matter is?

[Nihil Obstat]

Just because i don't believe the magesterium is infallible doesn't mean i dont still believe that the magesterium is a higher authority than any of you, in fact the highest authority on matters of faith and morals on earth.

 Further, all those things are to be believed with divine and Catholic faith which are contained in the Word of God, written or handed down, and which the Church, either by a solemn judgment, or by her ordinary and universal magisterium, proposes for belief as having been divinely revealed.

 

 

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

and also by the way you said that the "old catholics" are heretics. Where is the proof? A priest said to me i am like a group that was known as "the old catholics" and to stay that way. He is part of the magesterium, is he wrong or right?

Edited July 19, 2015 by Tab'le De'Bah-Rye

[Nihil Obstat]

and also by the way you said that the "old catholics" are heretics. Where is the proof? A priest said to me i am like an "old catholic" and to stay that way.

Not difficult:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Catholic_Church

Dealing with the "Old Catholics":

6.3.4.2 Formerly Roman Catholic clergy

(77) While the many formerly Roman Catholic clergy (priests and deacons) in the Old Catholic Church are of great significance for the pastoral ministry of these churches, they do impede the path to ecclesial communion because of the residual jurisdictional bond with the Roman Catholic Church (can. 11 CIC). The sanctions to which they continue to be subject in the Roman Catholic Church are excommunication for heresy and schism (can. 1364 CIC) and suspension in the case of marriage (can. 1394 § 1 CIC). Both censures deny the priest the exercise of his ordination and his jurisdictional powers (can. 1331 § 1, 1333 § 1 CIC). On the basis of suspension because of marriage they are by law relieved of their ecclesial office in the Roman Catholic Church (can. 194 § 1 no. 3 CIC).

(78) To solve the question of excommunication for heresy and schism, paragraphs 5-33 of the present text contain points of agreement in the sense of a “differentiated consensus” which may be productive in the question of heresy. For its part, the ecclesial communion sought here aims to overcome the schism, so that these infringements in future may be groundless. In face of the core question of an essential consensus in questions of faith and doctrinal content, suspension as a part of church disciplinary law is seen as a different matter.

(79) That means that in regard to sanctions still in force, the following canon law options are to be taken into consideration in a differentiated procedural manner:

• For those formerly Roman Catholic clergy who are at this time in office in the Old Catholic Church, a unique act of dismissal from the jurisdiction of the Roman Catholic Church (dispensation from can. 11 CIC) could effect an exemption from excommunication and suspension.
   

• This act “de praesenti”, performed for example within the framework of the signing of an agreement, would have to be followed by a multi-layered process “de futuro”. The Old Catholic Churches will make every effort to recruit future clergy solely from within their own ranks. The required training institutions and modalities have to a large extent already been available for a long time. Despite these efforts individual cases of the pastoral appointment of clergy who have defected from the Roman Catholic Church will continue to occur. The small number of new recruits from their own ranks at this time will not permit a general renunciation of this practice. Thus future defections cannot be excluded, and ways of dealing with these are still to be agreed upon.

6.3.4.3 Formerly Roman Catholic faithful

(80) The Old Catholic faithful who have formerly belonged to the Roman Catholic Church have by their defection incurred the punishment due for the offences of heresy and schism (c. 1364 § 1 CIC), and what has been said about these sanctions in 77-79 and applies to them also.

What has been said in 77-79 and 80 applies exclusively to Old Catholic clergy and faithful who have left the Roman Catholic Church but not to those who were baptized in the Old Catholic Church or have joined the Old Catholic Church from any other than the Roman Catholic Church.

 

 

 

 

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/vetero-cattolici/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_20090512_report-church-ecclesial-communion_en.html#Remaining_open_questions

 

In other words, the fact that they are heretics is obvious. 

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

• For those formerly Roman Catholic clergy who are at this time in office in the Old Catholic Church, a unique act of dismissal from the jurisdiction of the Roman Catholic Church (dispensation from can. 11 CIC) could effect an exemption from excommunication and suspension.
   

• This act “de praesenti”, performed for example within the framework of the signing of an agreement, would have to be followed by a multi-layered process “de futuro”. The Old Catholic Churches will make every effort to recruit future clergy solely from within their own ranks. The required training institutions and modalities have to a large extent already been available for a long time. Despite these efforts individual cases of the pastoral appointment of clergy who have defected from the Roman Catholic Church will continue to occur. The small number of new recruits from their own ranks at this time will not permit a general renunciation of this practice. Thus future defections cannot be excluded, and ways of dealing with these are still to be agreed upon.

6.3.4.3 Formerly Roman Catholic faithful

(80) The Old Catholic faithful who have formerly belonged to the Roman Catholic Church have by their defection incurred the punishment due for the offences of heresy and schism (c. 1364 § 1 CIC), and what has been said about these sanctions in 77-79 and applies to them also.

What has been said in 77-79 and 80 applies exclusively to Old Catholic clergy and faithful who have left the Roman Catholic Church but not to those who were baptized in the Old Catholic Church or have joined the Old Catholic Church from any other than the Roman Catholic Church.

 

I have neither left the holy roman catholic church nore been ex communicated nore dismissed, carefully read those two pointers i have highlited .

[Nihil Obstat]

Again irrelevant. The passages there show that it is considered fully evident that the Old Catholics adhere to heresy, hence the lack of communion with the Catholic Church, the one true faith. If you are an Old Catholic, then you are part of an heretical sect.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

The priest that told me this is ordained and practising, him telling me to stay that way whether wrong or right is a matter of faith and morals. Effectively you are saying that the magesterium can be wrong if he is wrong. His name is Fr Dominique Popplewell FSSP and is in the house in Parramtta Sydney Australia, take the matter up with him. Now back to marriage and the magesterium, what of my marriage comment than?

[Nihil Obstat]

The priest that told me this is ordained and practising, him telling me to stay that way whether wrong or right is a matter of faith and morals. Effectively you are saying that the magesterium can be wrong if he is wrong. His name is Fr Dominique Popplewell FSSP and is in the house in Parramtta Sydney Australia, take the matter up with him. Now back to marriage and the magesterium, what of my marriage comment than?

I do not care who told you whatever you think you were told. If a priest has said something heretical, well, far stranger things have happened. There have been countless heretical priests, and there will be countless more. If he is a priest of the FSSP, then I think it is more than likely that you totally misunderstood what he told you.

The things you have said here are heretical, and the magisterium is infallible.

 

 Further, all those things are to be believed with divine and Catholic faith which are contained in the Word of God, written or handed down, and which the Church, either by a solemn judgment, or by her ordinary and universal magisterium, proposes for belief as having been divinely revealed.

 

Edited July 19, 2015 by Nihil Obstat

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

 

 

all those things are to be believed with divine and Catholic faith which are contained in the Word of God, written or handed down, and which the Church, either by a solemn judgment, or by her ordinary and universal magisterium, proposes for belief as having been divinely revealed.

 

Amen 

also nihil i need to enlighten you to the fact that i said perhaps heresy and you rebuked me for calling people heretics yet you have now said that i am without a doubt heretical. I never said without a doubt.

*for calling people heretics which infact i didnt.'

and besides even without the without a doubt, can you see the hypocricy in you warning me not to call people heretics and than calling me one yourself?

[Nihil Obstat]

Amen 

also nihil i need to enlighten you to the fact that i said perhaps heresy and you rebuked me for calling people heretics yet you have now said that i am without a doubt heretical. I never said without a doubt.

*for calling people heretics which infact i didnt.'

and besides even without the without a doubt, can you see the hypocricy in you warning me not to call people heretics and than calling me one yourself?

As I said, you are the one making heretical statements. Nobody else here. Only you. If you are in fact not a heretic, then please state the orthodox, faithful Catholic position here. And also quote and contradict the previous clearly heretical statements you made.

Edited July 19, 2015 by Nihil Obstat

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

again i pain to state that i may have been wrong to say perhaps heretic, i just remembered that it is very difficult for the laymen to even be a heretic even when they are wrong and preaching error unless they side with ex communicated clergy. Something like that anyway, how well do you actually know your church people? So in the light of me remebering this, infact i was wrong to say perhaps heretical, or even bring up the word, sooo please forgive me. Back to the discussion!

or officially side with the views of a condemned heresy. Bearing in mind some saints where ex communicated and than re instated at a later date not for the reason that they repented but because a bishop was wrong, St Mary Mackillop of the cross is the prime example.

or officially side with the views of a condemned heresy. Bearing in mind some saints where ex communicated and than re instated at a later date not for the reason that they repented but because a bishop was wrong, St Mary Mackillop of the cross being my prime example.

Edited July 19, 2015 by Tab'le De'Bah-Rye

[Nihil Obstat]

To clarify, I certainly do not believe Fr. Popplewell is a heretic. I think Tab totally misunderstood something he said. And Tab has made clearly heretical statements.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

So ex communicate me if i'm worng. Your a witch burner, in fact most of you are, settle down or you may actually burn a saint and than be in real big trouble. Back to the discussion, so what of my marriage statements?

 

P.s. again, settle down people, St paul was also knocked off his high horse but i can't guarentee it will be Jesus talking to you if you get knocked off.

 though if it happens i really do wish that it would be Jesus. But also you do have the option to get off that horse yourselves.

Edited July 19, 2015 by Tab'le De'Bah-Rye

[Nihil Obstat]

I answered your question about homosexual unions in your question thread. None of your other posts on the subject have been fully coherent.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

I said nothing in this thread of homosexual union. 

Also in my defence, again i accept the teachings from the magesterium about matters of faith and morals with docility. It doesn't mean i believe 100% everything they say, what it does men though is i dont get angry when i think they are wrong or this would drive me far from the sacraments and communion with the saints, i try my best to accept everything anyone says with such docility. HOWZAT?

Ok. 1.i am worried that perhaps under the current christian world climate without belittling the natural union between 1 man and women that unfortunately perhaps we are making an idol out of marriage and that in fact only Jesus saves and not marriage. That although marriage is good the communion of the spirit and fellowship of the saints is far greater and more likely to save ( Jesus 'this is my body and my blood do this in memory of me, whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood will be saved, wherever any two or more are gathered in my name i shall be there.'

 

Back to the topic.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

I learnt that lesson when a priest accused me of desecrating the sacrament of confession and than latter after i had a discussion with him he admitted his wrongs and said sorry. Between the time of the accusation and talking to him about it i was seriously disabled in faith, hope,charity and mass attendance. And yes he is a practicing member of the magesterium, and yes perhaps a heretic or no perhaps he was just wrong and the magesterium can be wrong.

Don't be so close minded people, even the very Pope himself is open minded to the fact that at least sometimes he may be wrong, and if he wasn't than how is he open to the gift of repentance?

lets stop bunting the ball and running bases, there is a traffic jam, lets go for the home run even if we strike out.

 

Jesus " REPENT and believe in the good news"

Edited July 19, 2015 by Tab'le De'Bah-Rye