For those who work for the Church

[Amppax]

Oh joy. 

To both dissertations and this topic. 

Praying for this man and his family. 

[Gabriela]

As a means of procrastinating on my coursework, I looked up this issue and found these two articles that might interest y'all:

http://ncronline.org/blogs/young-voices/churchs-wage-gap

http://www.uscatholic.org/church/2008/07/does-it-pay-work-church

 

[:o)Katherine:o)]

Thank you Gabriela! I found both articles very interesting. It was an eye opener in some areas and confirmed what I already knew in other areas. It is interesting to see what the national averages are for certain positions. Living in the south I fall under the way below national average.

I hope that others will take the time to read these articles! One of them mentioned that this is a topic that is often overlooked and it is very much true. In the second article this part stood out to me "On the other hand, when requested to name aspects of parish ministry "most needing improvement," the top choice of respondents was "salary," almost double that of the next most troubling issue, "interactions with the clergy" I also read somewhere that included burnout. Most that I talk with that work for the church can list these three things as needing improvement.

[Amppax]

I think a lot of this has to do with the fact that the Church moves (very) slowly, and it's only now realizing that it isn't working with the same model it was in the '40s and '50s. Instead of having an abundance of priests and religious working in parishes, now it has a majority of lay people in most parishes. It seems also as if people are only now just realizing that there are people working in parishes who are actually trying to make a living, rather than just supplement their income (or their spouses, or whatever). 

It seems like the system in place only considers the priests as living off the parish, which would have been fine 60 years ago, but not so much today. 

[franciscanheart]

The employees at my parish are paid a livable wage.

[Basilisa Marie]

As a means of procrastinating on my coursework, I looked up this issue and found these two articles that might interest y'all:

http://ncronline.org/blogs/young-voices/churchs-wage-gap

http://www.uscatholic.org/church/2008/07/does-it-pay-work-church

 

So, why would someone spent $100k to get a degree in theology? I mean, it's one thing if you're going to be a doctor or maybe even a lawyer, but really? 

I find more frustrating the prejudice some priests have. I've encountered more than a few that will only hire married people, preferably married men, or go find a religious sister to fill the role. I've found a good position and plan on keeping it, but it was after dealing with some not-so-great stuff. 

[Gabriela]

So, why would someone spent $100k to get a degree in theology? I mean, it's one thing if you're going to be a doctor or maybe even a lawyer, but really? 

That's an excellent question. "Personal fulfillment"? Seems really foolish practically speaking.

In my department, and I believe in my entire university, you will not be accepted to graduate studies if the department cannot fund you (by a teaching/research assistantship and/or fellowship). They feel it's unethical to accept people who will have to take out tens of thousands of dollars in debt when the academic job market is so uncertain. They see accepting unfunded students as "enabling" them in financial ruin, which they're not willing to have on their consciences.

Considering the ministry job market is even more uncertain, I think Catholic institutions that offer degrees in theology and ministry really ought to think about the ethics of their programs as well.

[Nihil Obstat]

Pursuing academics for its own sake is noble in a way, but you need deep pockets or a magnanimous benefactor to do it.

[Benedictus]

Working for a diocese is often less than ideal. Sadly, the church seems to sometimes not share best practice and instead goes for the basics allowed in a certain region. The issue, I think, is the matter of money among parishes and dioceses in general. It's been practice for a long time for members of parishes to give very little in comparison to members of other churches. The Episcopal church gets more money to play with and it can fund staff and clergy.  We, well, don't. This has worked out OK in Catholic parishes in the past because a single church could survive in a big parish area with lots of people giving small amounts. They could pay the bills, keep a low stipend priest and even have a small surprlus. But as buildings get older, the demographics change, costs increase and the demands for staffing increases there are big problems, including parish closures. Dioceses, like religious orders, have to find ways to pay pensions and look after elderly priests etc.

I find it remarkable that parishes are so self restrained to talk about economic realities and dioceses only do so when it's too late! Those groups calling for married men to be allowed to be priests don't realise that the church simply couldn't afford a priest with dependents at the current levels of income. Theology and customs aside, there is an economic reality that prevents any change in this partiicular area. Where the issue won't go away is when parishes need paid lay staff when there aren't low stipend priests to manage things cheaply. Will the outlay be there for staff to get paid or will the Church close? I think it tends to be the latter. In the meantime posts for lay staff will, on the whole, be with large richer parishes. The number of posts though will, I suspect, get smaller over time.

Edited July 24, 2015 by Benedictus

[BG45]

So, why would someone spent $100k to get a degree in theology? I mean, it's one thing if you're going to be a doctor or maybe even a lawyer, but really? 

I find more frustrating the prejudice some priests have. I've encountered more than a few that will only hire married people, preferably married men, or go find a religious sister to fill the role. I've found a good position and plan on keeping it, but it was after dealing with some not-so-great stuff. 

Back when I was a Baptist, my old church refused to hire a man in his late 20s who was single "because he must be gay to not be married"*.  So I'm not surprised.

*He's now married to my cousin.

[BarbTherese]

Wrong thread!

Edited July 25, 2015 by BarbaraTherese

[Maggyie]

This is good advice for everyone not just church employees! I read that about 50% of Americans have no retirement savings at all. I imagine in Canada there is more social support. But I'm sure conditions are similar.