CatherineM Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 When you are young, it can seem like a long way away, but age and retirement do come. A very dear friend of ours worked for the Church most of his life. He was the director of a large ministry at the archdiocese until a couple of years ago. When we got a new Archbishop, he was slowly pushed out and eventually retired. I don't know if he and the Archbishop had some kind of difference of opinion or if he just wanted some new blood. In any case, he has no retirement. That's common working for the Church. He has tried to find other employment, but since he worked so long in such a high position in the archdiocese, he's finding that people think he's overqualified to do other Church or social justice jobs. In your 60's, it's not easy to start over again under any circumstance. He's been trying to qualify as a driving instructor, but couldn't pass the test. We signed him up to do respite for us. When we go out of town, Catholic Social Services pays for basically a babysitter for our brood to make sure they eat, take their meds, and have backup in case something happens. For some reason they still owed $250,000 on their house, which is now being foreclosed on. They have one adult child who can't help them. He's never missed a bill before in his life I expect. His last paycheck from CSS got taken away from him the minute it hit his account. He had no idea that if his checking account was at the same back that held his mortgage, that they could do that. It had never happened to him before. They think they have their house sold, which will help, but their only income is $1500/month, and that's what apartments rent for in my neighborhood, and I doubt his wife would consent to living in an area this "interesting." So my plea, is please take care of your finances. Make sure you are living BELOW your income. Save for your retirement. Pay off your school loans as soon as you can. Pay off your mortgage well before you retire. Have some kind of back up employment plan. Learn to do some kind of trade that won't care how old you are. Keep up with new technology even if you have a secretary. Know how to access social supports like the food bank. You never know when it might be something you need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AccountDeleted Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Being of retirement ago myself, I agree with you completely about preparing for it. I do wonder however why this poor man's parish can't (or won't) do something to help him out after all those years of faithful service. And I also wonder if the new Archbishop is aware of the intolerable situation he has put this man in by the abrupt dismissal. Couldn't anything be done to help him ease out of his position so that he wouldn't face the loss of his house as well as his livelihood? It all just seems so un-Christian. Of course I have no knowledge of the particulars of the situation, but the way you described it, well, it just sounds terrible on the part of the Church authorities and parishioners not to see to the needs of the this man who has dedicated so much for so long. But of course I am only interpreting this from what I have read in your post, and I could have it totally wrong. The retirement advice is excellent.I wish I had heard and followed it a long time ago. I would like to add to it as well - if you are planning on entering religious life, don't give everything away until final vows. It's hard to start over again with nothing, especially if you are older. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarbTherese Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Nunsense: I would like to add to it as well - if you are planning on entering religious life, don't give everything away until final vows. It's hard to start over again with nothing, Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted July 19, 2015 Author Share Posted July 19, 2015 I doubt his parish knows they are having trouble. He's a very proud man, and his wife isn't Catholic, so no gossip among the women. As to the Archbishop, he's a really good man. We have coffee with him every other month or so. His Auxiliary came to my husband's birthday party. Our friend retired about 3 years ago, so he probably also has no idea they are in a bind. I'm not entirely sure what happened with his job. He didn't leave until the new Archbishop was here at least a year, so it wasn't really abrupt. I got the sense that he felt like he didn't want to take his department in the new direction the Archbishop wanted to take it. I remember having a discussion with him about how you have to follow the path your shepherd takes, but he is one of those older guys who is set in his ways and didn't want to change. The Archbishop did some of the same kind of cleaning out at the seminary, and it was a fantastic change. He sent all the ultra liberal professor's into retirement and replaced with those who not only follow the Vatican's line, they believe in it. I suspect my friend's emphasis on his department was a bit like an older liberal nun's would have been. As to the finances, it's not just this diocese, it's most of them. We talk about how businesses should pay living wages to their workers, but how many of our workers go without because the Church can't afford more? It could be that I'm just warped by the fact I have always attended poor parishes that do good to keep the heat on. Maybe in wealthier parishes people are paid a living wage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AccountDeleted Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 I doubt his parish knows they are having trouble. He's a very proud man, and his wife isn't Catholic, so no gossip among the women. As to the Archbishop, he's a really good man. We have coffee with him every other month or so. His Auxiliary came to my husband's birthday party. Our friend retired about 3 years ago, so he probably also has no idea they are in a bind. I'm not entirely sure what happened with his job. He didn't leave until the new Archbishop was here at least a year, so it wasn't really abrupt. I got the sense that he felt like he didn't want to take his department in the new direction the Archbishop wanted to take it. I remember having a discussion with him about how you have to follow the path your shepherd takes, but he is one of those older guys who is set in his ways and didn't want to change. The Archbishop did some of the same kind of cleaning out at the seminary, and it was a fantastic change. He sent all the ultra liberal professor's into retirement and replaced with those who not only follow the Vatican's line, they believe in it. I suspect my friend's emphasis on his department was a bit like an older liberal nun's would have been. As to the finances, it's not just this diocese, it's most of them. We talk about how businesses should pay living wages to their workers, but how many of our workers go without because the Church can't afford more? It could be that I'm just warped by the fact I have always attended poor parishes that do good to keep the heat on. Maybe in wealthier parishes people are paid a living wage. Thanks for the clarification, CM. I am sorry that the man felt unable to be flexible or to find alternate work. It isn't easy starting over, especially after 60, speaking as one who is trying to do it! But I don't have a mortgage to maintain, just rent, which I can adjust according to how humble my living accommodations are. I recently moved from shared accom into my own flat, and I couldn't have done it without the help and support of family and friends, who all contributed items of furniture, kitchenware, use of van and help with the actual moving etc. In changed circumstances, one simply has no alternative but to be humble about accepting help and appreciating the graces God is showering through others. One of my brothers has had similar problems, losing his business in his 50s, having to declare bankruptcy etc (and he has 4 children), but he was one of the first ones to offer me help with my move, and his wife even offered me furniture. Perhaps this friend of yours will go through some very hard times, but he might find that it brings him even closer to those around him and to God. Since his wife is not Catholic, I do hope she has her own faith to provide comfort during this stressful time for them. I will keep them in my prayers. I think it is the hard times that often bring out the best in people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted July 19, 2015 Author Share Posted July 19, 2015 One of the biggest issues they had is the mortgage they took out 7 years ago. They did a $250,000 renovation. It's wasn't adding to their footprint either, no additions, no extra floor added, no rental suite built. I'm not sure how they spent that much money. I know his brother in law was the contractor, and that sometimes can lead to issues. His wife used to work as an interior decorator, so that could have been it too. When we did ours, we got our appliances at the scratch and dent and our furniture from the warehouse where they put the floor models and mix matched stuff. I have a feeling that she didn't do scratch and dent. He didn't put his foot down because I think he was allowing her to have anything she wanted because they were alienated from their daughter. I got the impression that she was trying to fill a void. That never works. When my parents tried to get a loan for an addition in the 70's, they had trouble getting the loan since my Dad was in his 60's. They had to pay it off before he turned 65. I think they got $8,000. What responsible bank lets someone borrow a quarter of a million dollars at that age. I guess it was their equity. Probably right before the market collapse. I have worked half my life with homeless people. When it's someone elderly or disabled, it rips my heart. We have gotten our guest room cleaned out just in case it's needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriela Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Maybe in wealthier parishes people are paid a living wage. No, they're not. And it's absolutely scandalous how much Church workers are paid. It's an injustice that calls out to Heaven. It's a blatant hypocrisy. It needs fixing immediately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basilisa Marie Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 I started working for the Church last October, and I'm surprised (and yet not?) that his diocese didn't have some kind of retirement plan for lay people. What I don't understand is how a bishop can reconcile Church teaching with stuff like this. I know there's probably more to the story, but still. Plus it's all especially relevant with today's readings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
:o)Katherine:o) Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 No, they're not. And it's absolutely scandalous how much Church workers are paid. It's an injustice that calls out to Heaven. It's a blatant hypocrisy. It needs fixing immediately. Yes it is and it does need to be fixed. I just started working my third year at the church and I cannot afford to move out of my parent's house. I work so many hours that I cannot get a job outside of my church job. I love what I do, which is why I do it. Yet, at some point I will have to find a different job if I don't find the religious community that God is calling me to soon. People that work for the church do not do it for the money, they do it for the love of the church. Yet, they should get paid enough to at least support themselves and their families. With my co-workers we do not qualify for insurance or retirement. I know many that work for churches and the diocese that struggle each month to make ends meet and cannot afford to put money aside for retirement. They cannot afford vacations or extra-curricular actives. Please keep all those that work for the church in your prayers as well! Many are overworked and underpaid and often get looked over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriela Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 What I don't understand is how a bishop can reconcile Church teaching with stuff like this. They can't. And I suspect that a decent administrator who's willing to make painful cuts to programming (i.e., to force volunteers to step up to run programs, or not to have programs at all) could easily raise salaries. But they don't, because the second money comes in, they say to themselves, "Oh good. What else can we do?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basilisa Marie Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 We just overhauled our health insurance my archdiocese, and while it's less expensive for the diocese it's more expensive for the parishes. Among other things, there's an extra cost per employee, regardless of how many hours they work. Some parishes in my deanery had the foresight to rework their staff structures to have fewer part time people and more full time people, but others had to go the other way and cut hours before the new fiscal year so that they wouldn't have to offer benefits. I suspect this is what most parishes do - keep people part time but pressure them to work full time. Not all parishes are like that, for sure, but many of them are. There's just as much bureaucratic nonsense as any company, but it's worse because you've got religious convictions backing up any decision. All that being said I adore my job, but it'd be very difficult to support a family on my salary, let alone a family that's jumping all the socially acceptable cultural hoops Catholics throw at each other (lots of kids, Catholic schools, etc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriela Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 I'm toying now with the idea of changing my dissertation topic to interview parish and Catholic school workers just to expose the outrage. Must not change dissertation topic again... Not again! NOT AGAIN!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puellapaschalis Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 I'm toying now with the idea of changing my dissertation topic to interview parish and Catholic school workers just to expose the outrage. Must not change dissertation topic again... Not again! NOT AGAIN!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG45 Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 I'm toying now with the idea of changing my dissertation topic to interview parish and Catholic school workers just to expose the outrage. Must not change dissertation topic again... Not again! NOT AGAIN!!!! Really, don't. The best advice I got for the dissertation was "the best dissertation is a done dissertation. It doesn't have to be perfect". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriela Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 Really, don't. The best advice I got for the dissertation was "the best dissertation is a done dissertation. It doesn't have to be perfect". Yeah, I know. But technically I haven't started yet. Although technically that's also not true. If you know what I mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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