tinytherese Posted July 17, 2015 Author Share Posted July 17, 2015 My brother is 13 and thinks that there are 3 possibilities; 1. God is a jerk who hates us, but claims to love us. (Another issue he struggles with is how God treated Job. He thinks he tortured him just to prove a point.) 2. God does not exist. 3. You can't know 100% for sure whether God exists or not, so why bother trying? I don't have a problem with him asking questions about his faith. What I do have problems with is him saying that he's done research, but neither shares with us what he's found nor what sources he's looked at. My mom and I are open to listening and dialoguing with him, but he's not cooperative. Knowing that he especially enjoys annoying me and arguing with people, I want to form a list of resources for him read and to give that list to mom and have it look like it came from her. She can give him one resource at a time so as not to overwhelm him. He's a much more intelligent reader and person as a whole than I was at his age. I was going to type up a study guide for him for the Dark Passages book, because it would be too much for him to read, but I'm having a hard enough time with it! Not everything is meant to be pastoral. There cannot be pastoral applications unless someone was first willing to do the academic and theological research and scholarly work. Then those who do the research need to make sure to explain their findings in a ways that people understand. I had to do that for my theology papers including my senior research paper. My research isn't much good if nobody knows what I'm saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarysLittleFlower Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Hmm what about something on the purpose of suffering? To show that God doesn't allow suffering out of some hatred of us, and neither is it only to prove a point but for our ultimate sanctification. It could also help him to learn about how its significant that the OT was before Christ and how that changes the situation. Did someone like Archbishop Sheen talk.about this? He's great for catechesis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 (edited) Tell him to look at God through the person of Jesus. Trying to understand God by using only the Old Testament is useless in my opinion. Jesus over and over again showed how loving and merciful He is. Forgiving the lady caught in adultery. Forgiving those who hung him on the cross because they didn't know what they were doing. The list goes on and on. If you only look at God through the Old Testament and not in the person of Jesus then I admit it can be troubling. God doesn't change. If He stopped women from being stoned to death while He was here on Earth I'm confident He was against it before He came as well. Edited July 17, 2015 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Then those who do the research need to make sure to explain their findings in a ways that people understand. I had to do that for my theology papers including my senior research paper. My research isn't much good if nobody knows what I'm saying. Why does it have to be the same person? Some people like to focus on pastoral applications, some people do not. Frankly, some people's talent would be wasted if they were expected to adapt it for wider audiences once they are finished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarysLittleFlower Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 It could help him to only interpret the OT with the NT, not in isolation... By looking at Our Lord yes. The OT is completely true too but can be easily misunderstood if interpreted contrary to fullness of Truth in Christ. God's goodness needs to be an assumption we start with to understand His actions... Otherwise if we come with a doubt that would fiddler our understanding wrongly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julianneoflongbeach Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 1. God is a jerk who hates us, but claims to love us. (Another issue he struggles with is how God treated Job. He thinks he tortured him just to prove a point.) Job didn't exist... Job is a Hebrew book of poetry a la song of songs. But it is powerful in how it shows the relation between God and evil. God didn't cause anything bad to happen to Job, but He allowed it in order to purify Job's faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarysLittleFlower Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 I agree with the rest but I believe Job existed.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peace Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 1. God is a jerk who hates us, but claims to love us. (Another issue he struggles with is how God treated Job. He thinks he tortured him just to prove a point.) 2. God does not exist. 3. You can't know 100% for sure whether God exists or not, so why bother trying? Well if #1 is true we had better get our act together anyway. Whether or not God loves us or is "a jerk", if Hell exists it would be best that we do whatever we need to do to stay up out of that piece. #2 #3 - if anything exists then God exists. The proofs that Aquinas set forth have not been refuted. And folks like William Lane Craig easily show that it is more rational to believe in God than to be an agnostic/atheists. Besides - if not having 100% certainty is an excuse, then it is an excuse for anything. Can he prove that he is not a brain in a vat? That we are not in the Matrix? That our bodies and the planet actually exist? Not having 100% certainty seems like a huge cop-out to me. So endeth my rant. My younger brother is an atheist and their arguments are frustrating, by the way. If you just want to live your life and do what you want to do regardless of what God thinks, be a man and admit it. That it is what it really comes down to. Don't come up with all of these lame arguments about God not existing or being a jerk and so forth just because you don't like the idea of being under authority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Credo in Deum Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Job didn't exist... Job is a Hebrew book of poetry a la song of songs. But it is powerful in how it shows the relation between God and evil. God didn't cause anything bad to happen to Job, but He allowed it in order to purify Job's faith. The Church does recognize Job to be an historical figure. http://newtheologicalmovement.blogspot.com/2012/05/did-job-really-exist.html?m=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinytherese Posted July 17, 2015 Author Share Posted July 17, 2015 My brother's opinion on Job unfortunately was influenced by watching South Park. I wish he stopped watching that trash. The story is presented as God bragging to Satan about how wonderful Job is and Satan arguing back that he's only holy because God has blest him with so many good things. God responds that they'll see about that after he takes them away. Job still praises the Lord and God wins the challenge. A character on the show says it's the worst story he ever heard and that God just tormented Job to make a point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Credo in Deum Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 My brother's opinion on Job unfortunately was influenced by watching South Park. I wish he stopped watching that trash. The story is presented as God bragging to Satan about how wonderful Job is and Satan arguing back that he's only holy because God has blest him with so many good things. God responds that they'll see about that after he takes them away. Job still praises the Lord and God wins the challenge. A character on the show says it's the worst story he ever heard and that God just tormented Job to make a point. Yes, that sounds typical of South Park, but hey you're not going to change their minds and depending on your brother's age you probably won't be able to help influence his thoughts either. In anycase you can tell your brother that the exchange between the devil and God is to illustrate that God is in control, not satan. That when things befall us, whether they be good or bad, that God has willed them either by ordaining them or by permitting them. This is usually a tough thing even for Catholics to grasp and accept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julianneoflongbeach Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 The Church does recognize Job to be an historical figure. http://newtheologicalmovement.blogspot.com/2012/05/did-job-really-exist.html?m=1 That's unfortunate. That book is so repetitive and boring it came as a relief when I heard it was just poetry. I like South Park. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Credo in Deum Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 There. Much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julianneoflongbeach Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 ...I concur. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountrySteve21 Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 The USCCB has a general introduction to the book on its website http://www.usccb.org/bible/job/ "This is a literary composition, and not a transcript of historical events and conversations." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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