the catholic church officially teaches nonbaptized infants go to hell

[dairygirl4u2c]

the only teachings that might say otherwise, are fallible, nonauthoritative statements. the church might currently unoffically teach the issue is open to speculation, but officially they have already made a decision. remember to be authoritative, it has to be the pope, intentionally, teaching, the church, on faith and morals. private letters, presentations to limited audiences etc, theological commissions, do not count.

just some examples:

Council of Florence Session 11 (Bull Cantate Domino): "With regard to children, since the danger of death is often present and the only remedy available to them is the sacrament of baptism by which they are snatched away from the dominion of the devil and adopted as children of God, it admonishes that sacred baptism is not to be deferred for forty or eighty days or any other period of time..."

Council of Florence Session 6 "..the souls of those who depart this life in actual mortal sin, or in original sin alone, go down straightaway to hell to be punished, but with unequal pains."

i am curious how learned men such as B16 and theological commissions can just dismiss these quotes. 

[dairygirl4u2c]

i might suppose people just pull a "that's what they said,,,, but what they meant was...."

 

ironic florence was also one of the strongest teachings of.... The Council of Florence taught that "all those who are outside the catholic church... cannot share in eternal life... unless they are joined to the catholic church before the end of their lives" and that "nobody can be saved, no matter how much he has given away in alms and even if he has shed his blood in the name of Christ, unless he has persevered in the bosom and the unity of the catholic church."

[Peace]

Hmm. You might start with this:

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/cti_documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20070419_un-baptised-infants_en.htmlhttp://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/cti_documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20070419_un-baptised-infants_en.html

[superblue]

i like how ya immediately tried to look ahead to a response ya saw coming as if to say, i knew you would say that /with :

i might suppose people just pull a "that's what they said,,,, but what they meant was...."

Council of Florence Session 11 (Bull Cantate Domino): "With regard to children, since the danger of death is often present and the only remedy available to them is the sacrament of baptism by which they are snatched away from the dominion of the devil and adopted as children of God, it admonishes that sacred baptism is not to be deferred for forty or eighty days or any other period of time..."         is it just me, or does anyone not see where it says non baptized children go to hell,  I tend to interpret this as saying to not wait on having your child baptized because the danger of death is often present to have them baptized etc... I suppose if ya wanted to be a negative nancy ya can interpret that as to say they are going straight to hell. and be like AH HA I GOT YOU SNEAKY CATHOLICS ! MUWAHAHAHAHA !

An i seriously doubt Benedict the 16th is dismissing anything; because he isn't sitting around like you looking up things from ancient times to thus be prepared to debate on an online forum.

basically what you did daisy, is interpret something to your liking, claim you found the answer, and then before anyone could rebuttle dismissed with a preemptive sorry this and this doesn't count, so then the question thus becomes, why bother posting if you know you are right.

and then it falls under no one cares and everyone goes back to ignoring you. 

[Norseman82]

Now I know how Europe felt when Napoleon escaped from Elba....

[BarbTherese]

Hmm. You might start with this:

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/cti_documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20070419_un-baptised-infants_en.htmlhttp://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/cti_documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20070419_un-baptised-infants_en.html

Thank you for link to this document.

"'Suffer the little children and forbid them not to come to me: for the kingdom of heaven is for such."  Matthew Ch19

[Luigi]

I always enjoy being schooled in Catholicism by someone who isn't Catholic, don't you? 

Researching Catholic theology is pretty complex. If you haven't read everything the Church has promulgated since the quotation that rings your bells, you're never really sure what the Church's official position is. 

 

Unless maybe you read something like, oh I don't know, the current catechism or something. 

[dairygirl4u2c]

Hmm. You might start with this:

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/cti_documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20070419_un-baptised-infants_en.htmlhttp://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/cti_documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20070419_un-baptised-infants_en.html

as i said before, this is a theological commission. it's not considered infallible. 
 

[Papist]

The Council of Florence was in the 1400's.  Please get back to us when you get to the 2000's.  Thank you.

[CatherineM]

And just when I thought it was getting boring here, someone left the backdoor open.

[Maggyie]

Dairy it seems you have a very reductionist view of Catholicism, which many Catholics do too of course. 

First the Church taught all unbaptized children go to hell (Augustine was big on this) then in the medieval period Limbo came into fashion. Nowadays most theology experts don't believe in Limbo either.

The fact that the teaching has changed multiple times should be your first clue that none of the various teachings on this issue are infallible, as you are using the term. Since Catholic teaching has the ability to develop, relatively few of our theological teachings are totally fixed and unchanging. This reality creeps some very conservative people out, but its true. 

[superblue]

And just when I thought it was getting boring here, someone left the backdoor open.

that was me.

[HopefulHeart]

According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

1257 The Lord himself affirms that Baptism is necessary for salvation.⁶⁰ He also commands his disciples to proclaim the Gospel to all nations and to baptize them.⁶¹ Baptism is necessary for salvation for those to whom the Gospel has been proclaimed and who have had the possibility of asking for this sacrament.⁶² The Church does not know of any means other than Baptism that assures entry into eternal beatitude; this is why she takes care not to neglect the mission she has received from the Lord to see that all who can be baptized are "reborn of water and the Spirit." God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments.

1261 As regards children who have died without Baptism, the Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all men should be saved, and Jesus' tenderness toward children which caused him to say: "Let the children come to me, do not hinder them,"⁶⁴ allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without Baptism. All the more urgent is the Church's call not to prevent little children coming to Christ through the gift of holy Baptism.

[Peace]

as i said before, this is a theological commission. it's not considered infallible. 
 

True. But reading the document might help provide some answers to your initial question.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

as i said before, this is a theological commission. it's not considered infallible. 
 

go to the vatican website and write 'what is infallible' in the search engine. you will find there are more than just the 5 or 6 matters of infallibility, them being, 1.the primacy of the pope. 2. the magesterium. 3. the absolution of the confessional. 4. christ real and perpetual presence in the holy eucharist and 5. The assumption or immaculate conception (sorry can't remember which one it is and will have to find out.) There are many infallible statements made by the Catholic church, according to the vaticans website and the magesterium on what is infallible.    hope that helps.

Edited July 16, 2015 by Tab'le De'Bah-Rye