“Always forward, never back” – the inspiring story of Blessed Junipero Serra

[BarbTherese]

If wrong has been done, then it needs to be pointed out and well to do so.  It really needs doing and some terrible things have been done. 

We are very quick to claim any victories, and very slow indeed to fully own our failures. Sometimes the (thoughtless?) religious persons involved are simply products of their times and what applied in their culture - sometimes one really has to wonder that if they knew The Gospel, how on earth did they reconcile what they were doing. 

That speaks to us in our own times too.  Am I immersed in my culture, or The Gospel?

Edited July 5, 2015 by BarbaraTherese

[MarysLittleFlower]

Yes.

MarysLittleFlower, in saying things like "I wouldn't criticise a saint" we can actually veer perilously close to idolatry. Only God is perfect.

Terrible things went on in mission boarding schools. I used to think of it as just a historical problem, long since over, until I started researching into complex trauma as part of my PhD. I found some horrifying stuff from Native Americans who were attending mission boarding school as recently as the 50s and 60s. As Catholics we can't shy away from this, or say that it was just a few bad apples - there was a systemic problem of abuse in those schools, which is unsurprising when you consider that a segregated education system is fundamentally wrong. Corralling children of one ethnic group into separate schools so they can be pushed into an entire different culture is never going to turn out well. This is not evangelism. It's abuse. At one point the government made it compulsory for indigenous children to attend these schools, and if they didn't go they would be forcibly taken from their parents. Church authorities were wrong to cooperate in this. For the sake of the people who suffered, we have to say it.

its not idolatry because I'm not saying that they are perfect. But that I wouldn't criticize them. Even if there was abuse by certain people it doesn't mean that this Blessed cooperated or caused it. It bothers me that secular people would have nothing else to say about the Church evangelizing native peoples. Lol I decided to leave and now I'm back... Last post here.

[beatitude]

MLF, Junipero Serra was involved in setting up segregated education for native peoples that was horribly racist in how it treated them. This is what I meant when I said that the mission education system wasn't a basically good thing with a few bad apples in it - it was fundamentally rotten. No one involved in that project had their hands clean.

However, to be a saint we don't need clean hands. If we did then every human except the Blessed Mother would be counted out. We need repentance and trust in the mercy of God, which can do all things. Junipero Serra is a blessed, therefore we know he trusted, we know he persevered, we know he is forgiven. This does not mean that we can't criticise bad things that he was involved with.

You are making it sound as though this abuse is somehow in doubt. "Even if there was abuse..." No, there definitely was abuse. This is solid verifable fact. There is no "even if" about it. You seem to be a lot more concerned about what secular people might say about the Church's "evangelising native peoples" (again side-stepping around the fact that the discussion is not about evangelism, it is about abuse) than the suffering of those people and their descendants. This is still a very recent, raw wound for indigenous people and they're still feeling the aftershock of that system, so basically chiding them for being too negative about Junipero Serra and "making a mountain out of a molehill" (!) isn't going to help.

[MarysLittleFlower]

I'm saying "if", because I haven't researched it. But I am not going to assume that every person involved was abusing. I believe that Blessed Junipero's intent was just to evangelize. Its like if someone starts up a project and then others involved do something else. I have an issue with the article saying that his canonisation is an insult - God chose for a miracle to happen and for him to be beatified / canonised. I'm not saying I don't care about the native children. I'm saying that I don't believe that Bl Junipero did any abuse himself. 

Edited July 5, 2015 by MarysLittleFlower

[marigold]

I'm saying "if", because I haven't researched it. But I am not going to assume that every person involved was abusing. I believe that Blessed Junipero's intent was just to evangelize. Its like if someone starts up a project and then others involved do something else. I have an issue with the article saying that his canonisation is an insult - God chose for a miracle to happen and for him to be beatified / canonised. I'm not saying I don't care about the native children. I'm saying that I don't believe that Bl Junipero did any abuse himself. 

Don't make me bring out my stern nanny face. Never mind this discussion. Go out and play in the sunshine

[Maximilianus]

Beato Fray Junípero Serra, ruega por nosotros.

"Siempre adelante, nunca hacia atrás..."