Interesting and frightening article on transgender children

[Ash Wednesday]

That's not really what I meant if it's a response to me.. I don't know

I wasn't responding to you. It was a merely general observation.

[dUSt]

As long as my daughters grow up knowing how to make sandwiches, I'm good.

[puellapaschalis]

As long as my daughters grow up knowing how to make sandwiches, I'm good.

Chocolate sandwiches?

[Kateri89]

I did a slight bit of research on transgenderism recently and there were a couple of things that stood out to me.  Keep in mind that what I found was not from any conservative Christian websites.  The cause of transgenderism is as yet unknown.  There is a belief that it may be caused by a hormonal imbalance.  So my question is, if the problem at hand is a hormonal one, why aren't researchers trying to figure out how to address that rather than surgeons simply performing gender reassignment surgeries?  And it blows my mind that such an extreme step would be taken when they aren't even completely sure of the cause.  Let's say hypothetically that they did discover that it was a hormonal issue and they did figure out a way to "fix" the problem without reassignment surgery.  Would they ban said surgeries?  Would people in the trans community want the hormonal fix or would they just rather be the gender they identify with?  And for the people who had already had the surgery, would surgeons be willing to try to reverse the surgeries to help the person transition back to their biological sex if they so choose?  Furthermore, there is a term you may have only seen more recently (or at least I was unaware of it until very recently) called "genderqueer".  These people don't identify with either gender.  I saw no explanation for the cause of that.  In referring to such a person, apparently you're not supposed to say "he" or "she" but rather "they". 

The problem that I see is that there is simply way to much confusion in general regarding gender and sexuality.  If you are "genderqueer" then you can't possibly identify as either gay or straight.  I suppose you could be bisexual but if genderqueer is a legitimate identity then bisexual would no longer even be a correct term.  You would have to say "trisexual" to include men, women, and genderqueer people who are apparently neither male nor female.  I make no claims to be an expert in this matter but it seems to me there is a much deeper psychological and spiritual problem here.

Practically speaking, all of these terms and identifications pose quite a few problems.  Bathrooms, for one.  When it comes to kids, which bathroom do they use?  If they allowed "trans" kids to use the bathroom of the gender they identify with, what about the rights of the cisgender kids using their own bathroom?  And you know perfectly well that there would be those troublemaker kids pretending to be trans to sneak into the other bathroom.  Department stores would no longer have clothing sections labeled "Women's" or "Men's" I suppose.  And this may make me sound harsh but I am not asking every person I come into contact with what pronoun they prefer to be referred to as.  If you were born in a woman's body I am saying "she".

Ok end rant.

Edited July 2, 2015 by Kateri89

[NadaTeTurbe]

Kateri, maybe this can interest you : http://www.sexchangeregret.com/ It's written by an ex-transgender. There is some explanation on why people are transsexuals (see "Research I've found"). 

And, I don't want to sound paranoid, but I guess surgeon prefer to perform GRS because of monney ? Yes, some of them sincerely believe in it, but in the end, transgender operation, clothes, etc... are a new business. 

[dUSt]

I don't understand the desire for a sex change. If you are a man that feels like you should be a woman because that is who you are inside, why are you rejecting who you are on the outside? I have heard, "God made me this way". Yes, but God also made you physically a man--so why not stay the way God made you? Why is the lack of a penis so important? I don't understand that part of it.

[Ash Wednesday]

You also can't change genetics, either.

It's something I can't begin to understand. That said, I've never walked in their shoes and some of these people have been driven to suicide. There are deep rooted issues going on that involve more than just changes on the surface. Hopefully we can eventually solve the mystery that causes these issues and truly help people in ways that don't have to involve mutilating their bodies or giving them hormones that could potentially have health consequences. The older I get and the more health issues I face, the more I realize how much our bodies are created as delicately fine tuned machines of life that aren't really meant to be tampered with (within reasonable therapeutics, anyway.)

Edited July 3, 2015 by Ash Wednesday

[NadaTeTurbe]

I read in some website, that depression, bipolar disorder, etc... could lead to body dysphoria (or dysmorphia ? never sure of the world). Some people who began to feel transgender, felt less dysmorphia after therapy and taking  medication. 

[Maggyie]

FTM (female to male) transitions are much rarer than MTF. In other words, there are far more men in the wrong gender, than women. About twice as many.

Is it possible this has some biological basis, yes, but ultimately all gender is a social role that is performed for an audience. Sex has a biological basis, but gender is a social experience.

I've noticed that MTF transitioning people often choose an ultra-feminine gender expression. They have absolutely been socialized by the Internet, media, family, etc as to what an archetypal woman's body is "supposed" to look like, and their choices as to appearance, behavior etc are often stereotypically female compared to the less sexy, less girly "typical" females who are in their original gender, and whose performance of femininity is less conscious. 

I think the large statistical difference between FTM and MTF can be explained in part by the fact that we are more comfortable with girls choosing male expressions as opposed to boys choosing female expression. A boy who wants to wear pink and play with dolly is far more likely to be labeled by his parents than a girl who likes blue and short hair and trucks. The girl's behavior is not always viewed as voiding her femininity but for boys, masculinity and maleness is rigidly defined. If a boy has pronounced feminine characteristics, well, he must not be a boy, at all...

[Ash Wednesday]

[ThereseMaria]

I'm a bit late to this conversation, but I'll add my two cents...

I feel like children and teenagers are still going through a lot of maturing and growth, and oftentimes we will be trying to figure out who we are, what we are meant to do, etc.

I feel like performing HRT/GRS at such a young age is kind of pushing it. What if they come to regret it later on? I really think there needs to be an age limit at very least on medical procedures regarding transgender people - I know it sounds harsh, but I feel like it could be very helpful to people. 

I also agree that a lot of children or even adults seem to have come to this understanding that if you don't follow traditional gender stereotypes, then you're likely to be transgender. I grew up enjoying "boyish" things, but I'm very feminine. I don't feel like a person's favorite color or toy preference defines their gender - there are lots of "feminine" boys and lots of "masculine" girls, and people honestly need to do a lot of thinking before deciding on HRT/GRS. That thinking requires quite a lot of maturity.

I'm not meaning to bash anyone, but I just thought I'd jump in on this.

[franciscanheart]

I'm a bit late to this conversation, but I'll add my two cents...

I feel like children and teenagers are still going through a lot of maturing and growth, and oftentimes we will be trying to figure out who we are, what we are meant to do, etc.

I feel like performing HRT/GRS at such a young age is kind of pushing it. What if they come to regret it later on? I really think there needs to be an age limit at very least on medical procedures regarding transgender people - I know it sounds harsh, but I feel like it could be very helpful to people. 

I also agree that a lot of children or even adults seem to have come to this understanding that if you don't follow traditional gender stereotypes, then you're likely to be transgender. I grew up enjoying "boyish" things, but I'm very feminine. I don't feel like a person's favorite color or toy preference defines their gender - there are lots of "feminine" boys and lots of "masculine" girls, and people honestly need to do a lot of thinking before deciding on HRT/GRS. That thinking requires quite a lot of maturity.

I'm not meaning to bash anyone, but I just thought I'd jump in on this.

There are some limits on these things. As with anything else, though, there are exceptions made. You can't just walk into a plastic's office and ask for reassignment surgery and get it without question or process. I know a few people who have undergone the change and it's a looooong road. It takes years, usually. I think the  Bruce Jenner thing is especially misleading because of how quickly it's happened. That said, Bruce was seeing people for years about the issue, so they probably counted all that together when they did his psych evaluation.

FTM (female to male) transitions are much rarer than MTF. In other words, there are far more men in the wrong gender, than women. About twice as many.

Is it possible this has some biological basis, yes, but ultimately all gender is a social role that is performed for an audience. Sex has a biological basis, but gender is a social experience.

I've noticed that MTF transitioning people often choose an ultra-feminine gender expression. They have absolutely been socialized by the Internet, media, family, etc as to what an archetypal woman's body is "supposed" to look like, and their choices as to appearance, behavior etc are often stereotypically female compared to the less sexy, less girly "typical" females who are in their original gender, and whose performance of femininity is less conscious. 

I think the large statistical difference between FTM and MTF can be explained in part by the fact that we are more comfortable with girls choosing male expressions as opposed to boys choosing female expression. A boy who wants to wear pink and play with dolly is far more likely to be labeled by his parents than a girl who likes blue and short hair and trucks. The girl's behavior is not always viewed as voiding her femininity but for boys, masculinity and maleness is rigidly defined. If a boy has pronounced feminine characteristics, well, he must not be a boy, at all...

I think it's also important to remember the other side of that: if masculinity is so rigidly defined, then those who are finally able to escape what they see as a suffocating and terrible hardship, they are much more likely to go far in the opposite direction. I also feel like the MTFs I've known have been a bit more desperate to be accepted as women and women are beeshy. I've found that FTMs I've known have had an easier time in the community than their counterparts. Again, all just personal experience. None have it easy and it's not a black and white conversation at all. I just think it's important to remember that these people are often running to an oasis in a vast desert. If you had to hide your whole life that you liked graham crackers, then when you finally were able to enjoy them openly, you might enjoy them every day, at every meal.

As an aside, I also feel like most of the MTFs I know all have to work a little harder at looking biologically female. Broad shoulders, no hips, larger/stronger jaw lines. The FTMs I know don't have birthing hips to begin with, so it's not super obvious. The dead giveaway is the chest scarring, but how often do they have to remove their shirt? The MTFs can't just hide their throats or shoulders or hands. You know?