Bridal spirituality

[sr.christinaosf]

I like the quote on your ring: I am my beloved's [and He is mine].  

Your post reminded me of a story I heard years ago of a consecrated virgin who was traveling on an airplane.  Someone near her was having some personal problems, if I remember correctly.  She ended up describing her "beloved" to this stranger, not saying that it was Jesus right away.  She told of how faithful and great he was.  I don't remember the whole story.  Anyway, I thought that was kind of neat and the story came to mind.

Also, your mention of people having trouble with the bridal image of being a sister/cv reminds me of another discussion years ago.  Consecrated life is not about "I want to be a sister so I can get a lot of good work done for the Church."  If we stick with this idea, we miss out on the depth and the beauty of the call.  Have you ever read the book "...And You are Christ's" by Fr. Dubay?  I read it twice during the course of my formation.  I checked it out again from our convent library in Hankinson and will read it again sometime soon.  Maybe I should do a book review on it for Our Franciscan Fiat.  

Also, back to your thing about people misunderstanding you and the bridal image...aren't you going to face that by the mere fact of considering religious life/being a cv with or without any discussion of images.  I don't think our world really understands much about the life in the first place.  

I hope my rambling might be of a tiny bit of use; I don't know.  Take care and God bless you and THANK YOU for considering an invitation from Our Lord; so many people are oblivious to the possibility.

[MarysLittleFlower]

Thank you for the replies! I've been thinking more about what bridal spirituality is to me... I think it is giving yourself without any limits to God and the result is that He consumes everything in you and lives in you, and you are faithful by consoling Him, denying Him nothing, suffering with Him and above all doing His Will. That is my understanding of what Jesus told the mystics is His expectation of His brides. It is not primarily the imagery. And the Cross is there.. I'm still kind of confused how to approach expressions of love and imagery and my fear with that, but I'm understanding that it becomes progressively spiritual over time but also grows in intensity. Chastity doesn't mean something cold and spiritual doesn't mean we reject His humanity or ours, and its not something abstract either. The Sacred Heart devotion shows that... But of course we need to always be unselfish and focus on love not the feelings, seek His consolation not ours, and purity. Do you all think the expressions I spoke about in one of my posts are proper as long as intent is good? Are they too.bold? Sometimes I'm afraid of just being too bold... I need to pray about this.

[MarysLittleFlower]

I love Fr Thomas Dubay's book and it really helped me understand its not about what you do but how you relate to Christ.

[julianneoflongbeach]

Well, go bold or go home. The only relationship I've ever had with Jesus has been spousal. In my teens and early twenties I developed relationships with God the father, God the ghost , and Mary. Jesus I really struggled with. Partly because whenever anyone spoke about having a "personal relationship" with Jesus it was so cloyingly sweet it made me sick. But when I got bothered by the fact that a personal relationship was something I needed and lacked, the way Jesus presented himself to me was as my bridegroom. He asked me to marry him and I said yes. It was something out of an effing fairytale. Taylor Swift was playing in the background. I cried like a little b*$%h. So when people talk about being uncomfortable with bridal imagery being too romantic for them, I just smile. And roll my eyes. Just a little. There is no such thing as considering a spousal life with Christ too romantic. There's nothing that exists in the whole of creation that is as romantic as that.

Side note: My biggest pet peeve is when someone asks me, "But what if you meet someone?". I usually ask them, "What would you do if you were already married and then 'met someone'?" They usually still don't understand in the least, but at least they shut up for a while.

 

And now, for my next paragraph, I will GO THERE. There have been quite a few moments when I've felt incredibly connected to God and been quite turned on as well. I think divorcing our sexuality from God is as useful as divorcing sex from marriage has been. In other words, bad. That's where talk about repression comes from. Before anyone becomes too horrified, I have to explain that I'm weird and for me being aroused in no way makes me want to actually have sex. It's just one of many physical feelings my body is capable of. And what I'm taking about, these moments of intense connection, they almost have to include being turned on because being that close to God turns on and up every cell, every single particle, in my body, mind, and soul. And, its unfortunate this probably has to be explained, it doesn't mean I feel like I want to have sex with Jesus. My experiences leave me with the profound understanding of how small and limiting the physical act of sex is. Without ever having had sex I know it doesn't hold a single flickering candle to the ecstasy of being with God.... Which is probably why it isn't a temptation for me. (Like I said, I freely admit, I'm weird.)

So, yeah... That's what I've got for now. Continue...

[beatitude]

I still have a fear though of relating to Jesus in this way..  And I have a fear that this way of relating to Him, together with the way you might feel love for Him more intensely once you give Him your heart (like He becomes everything), - might affect expressions of love for Jesus that are in themselves pure and valid - by affecting their intensity. For example I once asked if its ok to embrace Jesus (like in Heaven) - and the person seemed puzzled why I'd be afraid. Don't people embrace their brothers, etc - all very pure. But if you think of this while feeling a strong love for Jesus, and you see Him as your Beloved, - there's a fear of whether its still different enough than human spousal love. Even though the intent is good and the feelings are not like what people feel in marriage (like not sexual.. Even using the word here is horrifying) - its still kind of intensely loving... And the way you talk to Jesus or look at Him also has a very expressive, "spousal" way to it though again pure, virginal. Its just different. Not like human marriage love.  And not like your love for your brother either. Its like a whole new thing. Regardless of how good the intent is (reparation for His suffering for example), I always have the fear of it sliding into earthly marriage type of thing.

I guess what I mean is with this type of approach to Jesus, which is itself not romantic or shallow, - how do you know for sure you're keeping it spiritual when you think of *expressing* your love for Jesus? Because we humans express love in human ways. You see it in the Saints and how they did tell Jesus very loving things with this spousal language, embraced or kissed Him, - all very pure and humble but I'm not a Saint..how do I know i wouldnt be prideful, selfish and impure? (Obviously i dont have any visions. I mean thoughts/intent). Very fearful to me yet its hard to ignore this question when you know you do see Jesus as your Beloved, though spiritually, chastely, and with the Catholic understanding of what this actually means. Its too complicated. I cant talk about this to anyone in person of course except a confessor. Its even hard to write anonymously. Please be truthful but gently  thing is in the world I think I know just how this would be seen. 

First of all, do you think the saints knew they were saints?  Becoming holy for them was a lifelong process and they had thoughts and hopes and worries and dreams and struggles and imperfections. They just wrote candidly about all these things. You too are allowed to be candid in expressing your love for God.

As for the other bold parts...as you request, I am going to be truthful but gentle. MLF, based on this and other things that you have written in the past, it seems to me that you are frightened of marriage and sexuality. You've posted in the past that you didn't always live a chaste life, and it seems to me as though you're going to a fearful extreme in trying to distance yourself from your past actions. You have written elsewhere that sometimes you're scared that religious life isn't God's will for you, and it's only your will. But why would it be frightening if God were really calling you to marriage with another human being? Many people intensely want religious life, but they're not scared of the possibility of being called to something else. When the fear reaches this level something isn't quite right. I think you need to address it through prayer and through the advice of a wise spiritual director whom you trust. Above all, be kind to yourself - try to resist getting tangled up in all these worries. I know it's hard (no one has a button in their head that they can just magically press to stop worrying!) but when the fears come to you, try to respond with, "Most Sacred Heart of Jesus, I place all my trust in you" or by repeating a relevant Bible verse ("It is I; do not be afraid" is one I use a lot).

[MarysLittleFlower]

Oh wow much to address.... Forgive me in advance (both) if it seems like I'm debating. I have just had 6 years to over analyze myself in this who knows maybe I'm wrong. But just to say...Julienne, there are some things I really relate with in your post like how you said it makes no sense if people ask about meeting someone. That's how I feel too. It wouldn't matter because I've already made a decision. I have to say I have a different perspective on the last topic.. The "shocking one". You might be surprised (unless you read the same book) but its talked about either by St Teresa of Avila or St John of the Cross. This is described as an accidental bodily reaction  to spiritual consolation. Basically this is what beginners might get (perhaps not too uncommonly), because the body has no clue what to do with something spiritual.

As you grow in interior life and get purified it actually goes away. For the time it happens, we actually need to say "no" to the sensation, morally. I know its not like wanting something sexual. But it seems to me - forgive me - it needs to not be delighted in. Possible objection: isn't it ok for spiritual life to relate to the body and be intense? Yes but in a different way the book I read from the Saint seemed to say to reject these feelings but not get panicky. OVER TIME, the body is purified and  'gets it'. The experience becomes removed from anything sexual. What happens to the spiritual consolation though? It actually becomes MORE intense. More direct spiritual consolation is greater and way more intense than when its mixed emotional and spiritual. The body still participates sometimes (other times God absorbed one or more faculties) but in a different non sexual way.

So you know that story about St Teresa and her ecstacy and the Angel and spear in her heart? I can guarantee the delight she described was ten thousand stronger than sexual pleasure yet had no trace of the sexual at the stage she was at in mental prayer. Because those feelings even if unintended and disliked go away aftwe the first 'dark night' of purification. You might like the book Ways of mental prayer or Fr Thomas Dubays Fire Within because it describes the heights of contemplation and infused prayer in more advanced stages in a way where you get that they are a million times stronger than this semi spiritual semi emotional semiphysical consolation and they have no hint of the sexual feeling. The body is either unresponsive (in prayer of simple union or more so ecstacy) or shares in a very unsexual way (like feelings of a spiritual consoling, consuming fire).

The main part of the experience is DEEPER in the centre of the soul and the body is simply oblivious or shares in a new way. the reason I've gone to such detail is because mental prayer and growth in interior life (including mystical infused prayer which isgreater than these early consolations yet with no hint of that feeling) - has been my topic of study this year. It was my 'aha' moment to learn a whole bunch of this. Let me know what you think - if you want this is to describe the approach I have now. My previous question..was not actually about these feelings but other ones that are not avertly sexual. Its a feeling of wanting closeness with Jesus perhaps in a more physical way but not with this sexual feeling or for any sexual reason. I actually meant to ask if its spiritual enough.

The object is also wanting to give Him reparation by for example - kissing His wounds. Intensely so.. But with nothing sexual at all. If it becomes more about me and physical comfort in a non sexual way I prefer to go back to making it more about Him and showing love. So it must not be selfish. I made mistake before... I believe Jesus wants it to be unselfish and without seeking consolations for oneself, only Him. This also makes it more pure. We must also avoid seeking any spiritual consolations - it could lead to pride and attachment even delusion. The types of prayer I described shouldn't be sought for the experience or even expected. Interior life progress will collapse with pride and attachment. Only selfless love and humility must remain  my question was if its ok to have the desires i described above (wishing to express love) if in a non sexual and non selfish way. I already know what to think of this in those 2 cases. But not this one. God bless you!

[MarysLittleFlower]

First of all, do you think the saints knew they were saints?  Becoming holy for them was a lifelong process and they had thoughts and hopes and worries and dreams and struggles and imperfections. They just wrote candidly about all these things. You too are allowed to be candid in expressing your love for God.

As for the other bold parts...as you request, I am going to be truthful but gentle. MLF, based on this and other things that you have written in the past, it seems to me that you are frightened of marriage and sexuality. You've posted in the past that you didn't always live a chaste life, and it seems to me as though you're going to a fearful extreme in trying to distance yourself from your past actions. You have written elsewhere that sometimes you're scared that religious life isn't God's will for you, and it's only your will. But why would it be frightening if God were really calling you to marriage with another human being? Many people intensely want religious life, but they're not scared of the possibility of being called to something else. When the fear reaches this level something isn't quite right. I think you need to address it through prayer and through the advice of a wise spiritual director whom you trust. Above all, be kind to yourself - try to resist getting tangled up in all these worries. I know it's hard (no one has a button in their head that they can just magically press to stop worrying!) but when the fears come to you, try to respond with, "Most Sacred Heart of Jesus, I place all my trust in you" or by repeating a relevant Bible verse ("It is I; do not be afraid" is one I use a lot).

Beatitude I need to clarify its true I fear a lot in general. But I don't believe I don't want marriage because of any fear of the experience of marriage. I also have a natural desire for children. The reason I had that concern not wanting a husband is not because I'd hate having a husband but because my heart is already given to Jesus. I noticed people on one end may say I love Jesus in this way from the desire of a husband... Which I don't believe is true. But othetimes like in your post people may wonder if I don't want a husband from fear of ahusband. but the reason I don't want a husband or the reason I want to be perfectly chaste is because my heart is already given to Jesus. Its like if a girl is engaged and people ask if another comes along... She would love her fiancee and not care. I do have a natural desire for children. I just can't undo giving my heart. So Ifeared doing thatfrom self will. I hope its His Will cause I keep being lead to it in prayer. My fear of anything sexual now is because I want to be perfectly pure for Him. If I were a married woman i would want kids. But now there's no place for that. I understand we keep our nature and attention wewould have given to these things now goes elsewhere. I'm not against people being made with sexuality. I just want it to be correct in my chosen state of life and to live with perfect purity. Its true though I have fear in general with other things and I have struggles moving on from my past. But my desire to not marry is because of the love I feel for Jesus and wanting Him only to have my heart. I have no hatred or fear of men or any past painful break ups. I have no 'baggage', with topic of men. I even had feelings for a guy a while ago but they must be rejected because I want only Him. My fear was - would Jesus agree? I'm not running 'from' men... But to Him. I want my heart to love Him exclusively and for all my affections to be His alone. Men are not scary to me. Just not enough. 

[MarysLittleFlower]

Regarding other topics thanks for the prayer suggestion and the comment on the Saints  regarding fear its probably more of a lack of trust that I'm really called. That could be related to feeling unworthy. But I don't think its a fear of men or fear of a husband who would be a regular man. Like a fear of sexuality in marriage. I just can't find that fear in me and its not why I love Jesus in this way. It did not come from being hurt or wounded either. I just saw His love and wanted only Him, and for me loving Jesus and a husband is having a divided heart because I want Jesus to have all my love and all my affections.. No one else. That's the reason it would be an effort to accept marriage as God's Will, because my heart has been given and given with intent and forever. But I have tried to surrender my will to Him in this to purify intent. There were times He helped me to be open but I was lead right back to consecrated life. Any present fear is probably from feeling unworthy... Its true in general I'm a fearful person, you got that very right, but I'm not afraid of men or marriage in itself, - my only struggle in that would be dealing with my self offering. 

[beatitude]

I think you're misunderstanding me a little bit. I didn't mean to suggest that you don't have good genuine reasons for wanting religious life. You obviously have, and it's really beautiful to see. But it's possible to have a genuine religious vocation and still have some fears about marriage and sexuality. That's all I meant - I wasn't suggesting that you should go off and get married.

Edited June 29, 2015 by beatitude
Typo

[BarbTherese]

I am hoping, MLF, that you have a good spiritual director and can open up totally to him or her.  The concerns that you have and the confusions - and misunderstandings -  are best addressed, I think, in the context of sound spiritual direction.  Catholic Discussion sites are great resources and very often very helpful too with questions and concerns - they can also be a source of confusion as various members express their ideas and advice.  The written word is totally different to face to face communications and especially face to face communication in spiritual direction ("where two or more are gathered in My Name, there I am in the midst of them"), where one's director comes to know one's intimate interior life, or spiritual life, and the state of one's soul.

Personally, I think you are in a good place with some confusions and misunderstandings to address.  Gosh, I am almost 70yrs old with spiritual direction and I still can find myself in a good place with some confusions and misunderstandings.  It happens and no drama!

 

 

Edited June 29, 2015 by BarbaraTherese

[MarysLittleFlower]

I think you're misunderstanding me a little bit. I didn't mean to suggest that you don't have good genuine reasons for wanting religious life. You obviously have, and it's really beautiful to see. But it's possible to have a genuine religious vocation and still have some fears about marriage and sexuality. That's all I meant - I wasn't suggesting that you should go off and get married.

Ok no problem! thanks for clarifying. I think honestly if I did feel called to marriage I would want children and wouldn't be too scared of that whole part... I think maybe my fear is of not being perfectly pure in the state I've chosen because its different in that way. I do have many fears of unworthiness from my past though. This is just my understanding! I can't claim to know myself totally  

[BarbTherese]

I recall when I first read the mystics, I thought they must have been on a totally different planet to me.  I could not understand at all.  Some years later, I thought I had sort of got the gist of things.  More years down the line and I realized I only thought I grasped the gist, but that I did not at all.  Nowadays, I leave reading the mystics to mystics.  I read somewhere or other that a "wordy mystic is no mystic" and so I crossed "mystic" off my list of potentials    Nowadays, I figure that wherever Jesus wants to take me is where I am going I hope - without much concern at all for how, when, where or why.  But then as I said, I am 70 years on the journey.  Not only that, but we are all quite unique and all called differently most often as The Will of God unfolds in our days and as our days unfold.

Edited June 29, 2015 by BarbaraTherese

[beatitude]

Barbara and MLF, I really recommend the book Guidelines for Mystical Prayer by Ruth Burrows (a Carmelite novice mistress now in her nineties who has been in Carmel since her teens!). It radically changed my understanding of what it means to have a mystical faith, because it doesn't focus on visions and supernatural experiences but rather on the mystical union of the soul with Christ crucified. I think both of you would enjoy it if you haven't read it already.

[MarysLittleFlower]

I am hoping, MLF, that you have a good spiritual director and can open up totally to him or her.  The concerns that you have and the confusions - and misunderstandings -  are best addressed, I think, in the context of sound spiritual direction.  Catholic Discussion sites are great resources and very often very helpful too with questions and concerns - they can also be a source of confusion as various members express their ideas and advice.  The written word is totally different to face to face communications and especially face to face communication in spiritual direction ("where two or more are gathered in My Name, there I am in the midst of them"), where one's director comes to know one's intimate interior life, or spiritual life, and the state of one's soul.

Personally, I think you are in a good place with some confusions and misunderstandings to address.  Gosh, I am almost 70yrs old with spiritual direction and I still can find myself in a good place with some confusions and misunderstandings.  It happens and no drama!

 

 

Barbara, yes I agree! I'm glad to say I have a good holy priest as an SD. This is a great blessing. I meet with him regularly. However now he's on vacation :( and then I'm gone for over a month so there's going to be some time before I can meet for direction. Of course VS is not a substitute for direction. And though I say more here than to even my close friends (its the anonymity... I trust my friends this is just so personal) - I don't open my soul here like I do in direction. This year I've had a lot to discuss with my priest... Its been an eventful year. Some topics I haven't gotten to... Like this one. But I talk to him about my spiritual life and discernment  

[MarysLittleFlower]

I recall when I first read the mystics, I thought they must have been on a totally different planet to me.  I could not understand at all.  Some years later, I thought I had sort of got the gist of things.  More years down the line and I realized I only thought I grasped the gist, but that I did not at all.  Nowadays, I leave reading the mystics to mystics.  I read somewhere or other that a "wordy mystic is no mystic" and so I crossed "mystic" off my list of potentials    Nowadays, I figure that wherever Jesus wants to take me is where I am going I hope - without much concern at all for how, when, where or why.  But then as I said, I am 70 years on the journey.  Not only that, but we are all quite unique and all called differently most often as The Will of God unfolds in our days and as our days unfold.

of course its fine that people are different for example I'm not good at theology especially moral theology but my roommate is good at it. It's funny comparing our books sometimes I read the mystics just for the beautiful words from Jesus and I find much of it spiritually nourishing somehow. But there are many other things I can't read well. I see what you mean about not asking or wondering what God is doing or why. Sometimes I asked my SD why this or that happened.. And he's been helping me to just surrender that reasoning to God and just follow Him without so much knowing of why stuff happens as it does