Catholic Eschatology

[Archbishop 10-K]

Thanks for the insight, everybody. Once again, if I were to write a book about the end times, what do you suggest? (I am working on a science fiction set 300 years from now, and although it's not ABOUT eschatology, I'm imagining it as being set in the "end times.")

[daugher-of-Mary]

[quote]Thanks for the insight, everybody. Once again, if I were to write a book about the end times, what do you suggest? (I am working on a science fiction set 300 years from now, and although it's not ABOUT eschatology, I'm imagining it as being set in the "end times.") [/quote]

Check out Michael O'Brien's books. They are sooo and pretty much the only Catholic end times fiction you'll find.

[Quietfire]

MC JUST.

I may need to borrow some of that which you posted. awesome.

[Donna]

Read [i]The Lord of the World [/i] by Msgr. Robert Hugh Benson.

[Guest JeffCR07]

Also, try reading "Pierced by a Sword"

I would, however, like to note that, unlike with "end times" books, the book I talked about in my previous post [u]The Lamb's Supper[/u], by Scott Hahn, actually gives deep insight (and not only personal, but also from the Magisterium) on the Book of Revelation and specifically how it is a good method of undestanding the Mass

I mean, where can you find celibate men in vestments attending the alter with insence? Where can you find a congregation shouting out "Holy, Holy, Holy?"

The answer: two places. 1.) Revelation 2.) The Mass (or divine liturgy, if you're of the eastern Rites)

Anyways, basically remember this: The word of God, Inspired by the Holy Spirit, is too deep, too meaningful, to limit it to one interpretive style or another. It works on all levels.

If you ARE going to right an "end times" book, just try not to come up with something as blatantly one-dimensional as everything else thats been coming out recently

- Your Brother in Christ, Jeff

[Budge]

Just so you all know I do not believe in a Rapture that will take Christians out of the Tribulation. There is a verse in Revelation or it could be Daniel where it says the AntiChrist will make war againt the saints. The Rapture could be sooner then later but I consider those who teach that the Rapture will save Christians from all suffering to be false prophets, that would include LaHaye and pals. You may be surprised at a Baptist saying this but much of LaHayes Christianity is watered down.

[quote]Hey Budge, I dunno if you're interested, but if you want to learn about Catholics and Revelation, I suggest reading a book by Scott Hahn called The Lamb's Supper . Catholics arnt exclusively Preterists, but some are Futurists and some are Idealists as well. The draws a TON from revelation, and it turns out that Catholic teaching on Revelation isn't lacking at all, in fact, its REALLY REALLY deep stuff. If you're interested, I recommend it! [/quote]

I know not all are Preterists though that seems to be the prevailing theme. One Catholic man told me he thought the kingdom was now. Dont know how anyone could think that given the evils of the 2oth century and now. I actually did read The Lamb's Supper before my exit from the Catholic Church. I did not agree with its conclusions. It seemed very vague and dreamy like--like Revelation would never impact on real day to day life--I believe it will. The only thing I would agree with a Catholic on is that Revelation is multi-layered. Ie the AntiChrist warnings could apply to both past--Nero and future AntiChrist.


[quote] the stuff in the book of Revelation happened, it is happening and it will happen again at the end. [/quote]

See above, I actually agree with you.

[quote]I would, however, like to note that, unlike with "end times" books, the book I talked about in my previous post The Lamb's Supper, by Scott Hahn, actually gives deep insight (and not only personal, but also from the Magisterium) on the Book of Revelation and specifically how it is a good method of undestanding the Mass[/quote]

I didnt agree with Hahns link of the Mass to Revelation. I think that the worship of God in heaven will be so utterly awesome--that human words couldnt even describe it. To say that a Novus Ordo Mass is like heaven on earth, I think was really stretching things. I dont think God would have sleepy-heads in pews yawning their way through. I also do not expect the worship of Almighty God maker of the universe to be boring and repetitive. Just because people are saying Holy Holy Holy--I have no objections to be shouting that for God...and burning incense--at least asthmatics in heaven wouldnt have to worry anymore....it doesnt connect to a modern day Mass--Hahn left out a lot to me. He left out fulfillment of the prophecies, he left out discernment and warning--Christians need to be edified and strengethened in their faith for what is to come.

[quote]Anyways, basically remember this: The word of God, Inspired by the Holy Spirit, is too deep, too meaningful, to limit it to one interpretive style or another. It works on all levels.[/quote]

I agree with that see above. The Word of God to me is a like bottomless ocean. That is best way I can explain it but it also applies to my day to day life, it is reality, is not just esoteric fables or metaphors. I believe unlike these Catholic bishops in writing a paper on fundamentalists that the BIble does indeed contain ANSWERS to the problems of everyday life and challenges.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Budge' date='Jun 15 2004, 10:09 AM'] Just so you all know I do not believe in a Rapture that will take Christians out of the Tribulation. There is a verse in Revelation or it could be Daniel where it says the AntiChrist will make war againt the saints. The Rapture could be sooner then later but I consider those who teach that the Rapture will save Christians from all suffering to be false prophets, that would include LaHaye and pals. You may be surprised at a Baptist saying this but much of LaHayes Christianity is watered down.



I know not all are Preterists though that seems to be the prevailing theme. One Catholic man told me he thought the kingdom was now. Dont know how anyone could think that given the evils of the 2oth century and now. I actually did read The Lamb's Supper before my exit from the Catholic Church. I did not agree with its conclusions. It seemed very vague and dreamy like--like Revelation would never impact on real day to day life--I believe it will. The only thing I would agree with a Catholic on is that Revelation is multi-layered. Ie the AntiChrist warnings could apply to both past--Nero and future AntiChrist.




See above, I actually agree with you.



I didnt agree with Hahns link of the Mass to Revelation. I think that the worship of God in heaven will be so utterly awesome--that human words couldnt even describe it. To say that a Novus Ordo Mass is like heaven on earth, I think was really stretching things. I dont think God would have sleepy-heads in pews yawning their way through. I also do not expect the worship of Almighty God maker of the universe to be boring and repetitive. Just because people are saying Holy Holy Holy--I have no objections to be shouting that for God...and burning incense--at least asthmatics in heaven wouldnt have to worry anymore....it doesnt connect to a modern day Mass--Hahn left out a lot to me. He left out fulfillment of the prophecies, he left out discernment and warning--Christians need to be edified and strengethened in their faith for what is to come.



I agree with that see above. The Word of God to me is a like bottomless ocean. That is best way I can explain it but it also applies to my day to day life, it is reality, is not just esoteric fables or metaphors. I believe unlike these Catholic bishops in writing a paper on fundamentalists that the BIble does indeed contain ANSWERS to the problems of everyday life and challenges. [/quote]
The Rapture of the "Left Behind" carp is an 1800 protestant invention.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Archbishop 10-K' date='Jun 15 2004, 01:08 AM'] Thanks for the insight, everybody. Once again, if I were to write a book about the end times, what do you suggest? (I am working on a science fiction set 300 years from now, and although it's not ABOUT eschatology, I'm imagining it as being set in the "end times.") [/quote]
The definitive Catholic book on the end-times is "[i]Trial, Tribulation, and Triumph: Before, During and After the Anti-Christ"[/i] by Desmond Birch.

His series just ended on EWTN .

If you want to join his message board email me.

[Guest JeffCR07]

Hey Budge, just to clarify talk a little bit about something you said:
[quote]One Catholic man told me he thought the kingdom was now. Dont know how anyone could think that given the evils of the 2oth century and now[/quote]

I'm not sure, but it may have been someone who buys into "Liberations Theology" which the Holy Father has basically said is wrong. It teaches that there are NOT both "vertical" and "horizontal" planes of salvation, only horizontal. Basically they say that the Kingdom of God IS here on earth, in the now, and we just need to show it by fighting social ills. (IE, when all [i]social[/i] sins are "fixed" then personal sin will not exist, and we will all realise that the Kingdom of God is here on earth). I'm not saying that this is definately what the guy you talked to was saying, but if it is, then he's...whats the word...wrong.

Also, just on a person to person question: I thought Scott Hahn did a really good job illustrating how, even with the off-tune cantors and studder-filled homily, the crying baby and un-attentive adolescents (I'm 18, dont be offended fellow teenagers), it is STILL heaven on earth, by nature of the transubstantiation, our eating of His flesh and drinking of His blood; that is, our participation in His salvific sacrifice.

For me, when put in that light, Revelation really jumps to life and affects me every time I'm at mass.

I'm just wondering what your thoughts are on it (lol, im not judging, its not like its a sin to not like a book)