We Finally Have hope and change ! <3

[Peace]

Borders keep people safe, just like when Jesus drew a line in the sand to protect the women from getting stoned. People of other nations have different rules and understandings as to what is right and what is wrong, what is true and what is just.

This isn't even true is it? Seems a bit like Bro-theology.

I do not think we know what Jesus wrote, or why he wrote it. Perhaps He wrote a line. Perhaps He wrote a name. Bishop Fulton Sheen guessed that He wrote down the names of sins that the accusers had committed.

I think it is a bit of a stretch to assert that has anything to do with immigration policy.

[Socrates]

Sooo.... I still don't understand. Why are illegal immigrants a problem?

 

 

Well, (to give just one recent example), if this illegal, who was "deported" (under the changed Obama definition of "deported") five times, hadn't been given illegal "sanctuary" in San Francisco, this murder wouldn't have occurred.  

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/07/06/feds-fire-back-at-san-francisco-point-finger-at-city-for-releasing-suspected/

But, it's only a human life; no biggie . . .

[Peace]

Well, (to give just one recent example), if this illegal, who was "deported" (under the changed Obama definition of "deported") five times, hadn't been given illegal "sanctuary" in San Francisco, this murder wouldn't have occurred.  

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/07/06/feds-fire-back-at-san-francisco-point-finger-at-city-for-releasing-suspected/

But, it's only a human life; no biggie . . .

Would your reasoning not also apply to legal immigration as well? I am sure you can find a news article where a legal immigrant has committed a murder. . .

You could pick out a murder committed by any US Born citizen and say "were it not for this person being born this murder would not have occurred. Therefore births by US Born citizens are a problem."

It seems to me that if you are going to engage in an intelligent discussion concerning whether illegal immigration is a problem - that would not be the way that one would want to go about starting it.

[superblue]

Would your reasoning not also apply to legal immigration as well? I am sure you can find a news article where a legal immigrant has committed a murder. . .

You could pick out a murder committed by any US Born citizen and say "were it not for this person being born this murder would not have occurred. Therefore births by US Born citizens are a problem."

It seems to me that if you are going to engage in an intelligent discussion concerning whether illegal immigration is a problem - that would not be the way that one would want to go about starting it.

maybe socrates could have found a better article instead of fox news ( which interestingly enough is not as fair and balances as they would like people to believe)  an maybe it is just anything from fox news you don't like in general and that is fine too.

 

but it is a fact and reports are easily to find about illegal immigrants who have committed murders and other crimes where if our government did their job instead of finger pointing and playing everyone for a vote, and fixed the process of immigration into America there might have been a better chance of this criminal not getting in at all.  The added problem to those who want open boarders is this example, of people who are not vetted , have a criminal background and can just openly walk into the USA, possibly even be a fugitive and are now here in the USA Legally. And then that becomes an extradition problem.

Obviously no one can keep every bad person out of the main stream of society, but a flat out open door policy just won't help anyone and it will cause so many more problems than this country already has.

If anything, make a Medical Visa , people are crying bloody murder over giving medical assistance to the needy and poor, and evidently is impossible for medical care to be brought from the USA to where it is needed an since Visas are like a golden ticket, seems there should be one. If there already isn't. 

 

[Socrates]

Would your reasoning not also apply to legal immigration as well? I am sure you can find a news article where a legal immigrant has committed a murder. . .

You could pick out a murder committed by any US Born citizen and say "were it not for this person being born this murder would not have occurred. Therefore births by US Born citizens are a problem."

All true, but you're completely missing the point.

My point is, if we were enforcing the laws, such a person who committed that murder would not be in our country to begin with.  The U.S. (like every other sovereign nation) is perfectly within its rights to keep persons with criminal or other problematic backgrounds from entering the country.    Giving sanctuary to whoever sneaks across the border is stupid.

[Peace]

All true, but you're completely missing the point.

My point is, if we were enforcing the laws, such a person who committed that murder would not be in our country to begin with.  The U.S. (like every other sovereign nation) is perfectly within its rights to keep persons with criminal or other problematic backgrounds from entering the country.    Giving sanctuary to whoever sneaks across the border is stupid.

OK. But I am not sure how your point supports the assertion that illegal immigrants are a problem, as compared to any other group of people. I don't think there is any hard evidence to support an assertion that illegal immigrants commit crime at a higher rate than any other group (including native-born Americans).

And who is to say that if the guy is deported he does not end up killing 10 people in his home country? I am not quite sure what your point proves exactly . . .

[superblue]

Take a look at what the Democrat party and Obama have given us, and what the Republicans are doing.

 

Then go back in time to George Washington and glimpse  or even read a fraction of this Farewell Address and determine how things are looking at the moment and see for yourself how Washington was not a fool when he stated what he did. He was the Einstein of his generation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Washington's_Farewell_Address

[Peace]

I am starting to hope that a Republican wins just so I don't have to listen to you whine anymore.

[superblue]

I am starting to hope that a Republican wins just so I don't have to listen to you whine anymore.

and adios. Sorry that the truth hurts you so much.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

Tab'le the problem is those that want open boarders which is just slang, what society wants is America to have open boarders, and who cares what the rest of the world does.... but again the ones that want America to open to all, they time an again ignore and or side step reality and simply hang everything on flimsy ideals and sympathy.

They would rather let in 51 people if it meant 50 are criminals and will probably murder or do someone harm so that the one person gets the much needed help.  That is the ration of thinking that is being held.

The problem is not open boarders brother it is open borders and the illumanatis attempt to disrupt Gods plan, because open borders will not occur until Jesus return. Thats what i think anyway, it's not necessarily what i believe although i'm leaning towards that it is 100% correct. The attempt to create a one world government and death of all culture or at least that all culture is watered down including catholic culture, actually particularly catholic culture but all of Christianity in general.

Free Boarders in it's truest sense means anyone you welcome into your house is to be welcomed as if they where your best friend,an angel a brother. Holy scripture actually advises this "you could be entertaining an angel" " what is mine is yours brother", but of course that doesn't mean you let a homeless man move into your life and rent for free, as soon as the food is gone he or she must leave where door mats and you can where out your welcome without loving them any less it just has to be switched from face to face to prayer and fasting.

By food i mean spiritual food, a spiritual crux is reached, a dillema that can not be solved by us only Jesus.

But continue anyway because The holy spirit is the only witness i need.

even if you don't love me, but i believe i have made my point with all honesty in faith, hope and love.

Edited July 25, 2015 by Tab'le De'Bah-Rye

[superblue]

http://news.yahoo.com/air-force-one-obama-kenyan-babies-named-presidential-133528406.html

 

distrubing.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

Sorry some of a post from another thread sees to have ended up here,

But continue anyway because The holy spirit is the only witness i need. 

"even if you don't love me, but i believe i have made my point with all honesty in faith, hope and love."

That part right there wasn't supposed to be in this thread, i will try and remember where it was supposed to be.

Thanks.

God iz Good!

Edited July 25, 2015 by Tab'le De'Bah-Rye

[Socrates]

OK. But I am not sure how your point supports the assertion that illegal immigrants are a problem, as compared to any other group of people. I don't think there is any hard evidence to support an assertion that illegal immigrants commit crime at a higher rate than any other group (including native-born Americans).

Actually, according to government statistics, illegal immigrants do in fact account for a hugely disproportionate amount of crime for their share of the population (nearly 37% of federal convictions for less than 4% of the U.S. population).  http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/07/07/illegal-immigrants-accounted-for-nearly-37-percent-of-federal-sentences-in-fy-2014/

And, really, it shouldn't be surprising that persons who choose to sneak across the border illegally would be more likely to commit other crimes.

But that wasn't even my point.  If even, say, one murderous terrorist slips into the U.S. because of lax border security, it doesn't matter if the majority of those slipping over are not terrorists.  (And no, turning around and saying a U.S. citizen can just as easily become a terrorist doesn't refute the need for border security and screening of persons entering the country.)

Just like it's best to at least have some idea of who people are and what they want before you let them into your home, rather than leaving the door open for anyone to sneak into your home who wants to.  The idea of "open borders" is stupid.

 

And who is to say that if the guy is deported he does not end up killing 10 people in his home country? I am not quite sure what your point proves exactly . . .

That should be the responsibility of law enforcement in his own country to stop.  The U.S. shouldn't be a dumping ground for undesirables from elsewhere, nor a sanctuary for the world's criminals.

[Peace]

Socrates:

Shall we engage in a debate about who has the better web links?  According to this article:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/07/16/voices-gomez-undocumented-immigrant-crime-san-francisco-shooting/30159479/

The statistics posted in the article you linked are largely irrelevant to the question. And I am pretty sure that if you think it out for yourself you can see why that would be the case as well.

To summarize:

"There's no evidence that immigrants are either more or less likely to commit crimes than anyone else in the population," Janice Kephart, a CIS researcher, said last weekon the PBS NewsHour.

 

And, really, it shouldn't be surprising that persons who choose to sneak across the border illegally would be more likely to commit other crimes.

Nor should it be surprising that people who are desperate to come here to make a better live for themselves would be unlikely to commit crime, subjecting themselves to deportation.

But that wasn't even my point.  If even, say, one murderous terrorist slips into the U.S. because of lax border security, it doesn't matter if the majority of those slipping over are not terrorists.  (And no, turning around and saying a U.S. citizen can just as easily become a terrorist doesn't refute the need for border security and screening of persons entering the country.)

And why would it not matter? You can just as easily make the same argument against legal immigration, can you not? At least 1 legal immigrant has committed a murder in the USA - does that mean we should ban all legal immigration? I do not see what you have proved.

 Just like it's best to at least have some idea of who people are and what they want before you let them into your home, rather than leaving the door open for anyone to sneak into your home who wants to.  The idea of "open borders" is stupid.

Perhaps. But that is not the question that we have been discussing. We have been discussing the question of whether illegal immigrants are a problem. I think most people agree that it is reasonable to take precautions to keep known criminals from immigrating, and for keeping track of who is in the country, etc.

That should be the responsibility of law enforcement in his own country to stop.  The U.S. shouldn't be a dumping ground for undesirables from elsewhere, nor a sanctuary for the world's criminals.

I don't advocate making the US a dumping ground for the world's criminals, either. I am glad that we agree. 

[superblue]

this issue of the border is really small potatoes when you look at what the socialists in the democrat party have done since day one, to now this current absurd deal with Iran, PlanParenthood etc.

 

THOUGH the fun continues, i thought hillary was done being questioned about Bengazhi ( ill spell check that later , actually no i wont ) and she is now coming up again, does anyone know why though she is being questioned again i thought the first go around was it and done. We all know this is just a waste of time and nothing will happen so... who benefits or is this merely a reminder for the campaigns now ?

But hey at least Eric Holder is off the hook for Fast and Furious,

Really the republican party needs to take notes from the democrats and obama on how to get away with doing what ever you want. it is rather spectacular how one party can push the other around, and the other does absolutely nothing and is almost as corrupt as the other.