Do we really care about Hell?

[Ash Wednesday]

If Christians believe that Hell is a real place where lots of people actually go, and it's the most horrible thing imaginable, and it lasts forever; how come they do so little to prevent others from going there?

One reason is because people, including many Christians and Catholics -- no longer have the stomach to talk about hell.  If you mention the possibility of anyone going to hell, we get written off as medieval or "too negative".  It's difficult to warn someone about hell when they refuse to listen or even acknowledge it in the first place. There is no balance in the discussion -- people either refuse to talk about or acknowledge it at all, or we have people that become distressed and overcompensate for this indifference and become scrupulous.

[Kia ora]

I personally think we should read more Dante. I would not be surprised if Hell was something like what he depicted in the Inferno (and also we should read his somewhat neglected Purgatorio and Paradiso).  I can really believe that the experience of Hell is going to have to do with our misoriented desires gone amok and astray. But even if it turns out not to be accurate, it has positively affected my own religious life. Maybe it might not be helpful to other people in this day and age, but we can't know that unless we read it for ourselves.

 

Edited June 27, 2015 by Kia ora

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

 

 Baptism is necessary for salvation, but we know unbaptized people can go to Heaven. We know Christ is the only way to the Father, but we know it's possible he comes to people in ways we don't know right before they die. Just take what you do know and use it to the best of your abilities. 

Baptism and REPENTANCE are the assured way to heaven with the grace of Christ Jesus. My understanding of people outside of the faith is they can believe in Good and can be sorrowful about there evils and others evils and im guessing that this is baptism of desire and therefore such people are also baptised.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

I've been to Sunday Mass for most of my life in various Parishes and various circumstances, and I've never heard a homily on Hell. Christians could just as well ignore it entirely.

I've seen Christian families raise their children and I've never seen a parent care remotely as much about saving his children from Hell as saving them from physical injury, disease, homelessness, and such worldly considerations that are infinitely less important than the infinite afterlife they claim to believe in.

I see generalized indifference towards the beliefs of non-Christians.

In short, I don't see anyone, even among the few Christians who actually believe in the traditional doctrine on Hell and Salvation, taking the issue remotely as seriously as the doctrine says it is.

the four last things to remember when examining ones concience is death,hell,judgement and heaven. All these things should be bought into the kitchen and cooked on the pulpit, i agree. Some people can't or refuse to examine there concience nowadays or can't due to t.v and pop music brainwashing therefore the holy priest needs to examine it for them, either by preaching it from the pulpit or in the confessional by asking the confesee questions about there sin and replying with the truth of the church including the four last things.

Edited June 27, 2015 by Tab'le De'Bah-Rye

[Dr_Asik]

eh, what if you're right and a majority of Christians don't believe in Hell? Or just pretend to? Or don't really think about it? 

So what? 

If you do believe in Hell, how can you not care about that?

[Anastasia13]

All your points are true, but irrelevant.  I am just making an observation about who on this phorum likes to post about hell.  It's mainly men and boys who post and also who appear to believe that only a minority of the human race will ever make it to heaven.  To me it's a comment on their maturity and also I suspect their positions in life, or their attitudes towards their positions who they are and their relationship to others.

I already did two research papers on hell in college. One was posted here several years and probably a couple updates ago. I am not a man. Feel better?

Correct me if I am wrong, but it is not for us to judge who goes to hell and who goes to heaven, but it is for us to say what they need to go to heaven instead. It is not in error to discuss hell from time to time. Even Jesus (a legally white in the US) man mentioned hell from time to time, but the greater emphasis is on what God would have for us.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

[Yaatee]

I already did two research papers on hell in college. One was posted here several years and probably a couple updates ago. I am not a man. Feel better?

Correct me if I am wrong, but it is not for us to judge who goes to hell and who goes to heaven, but it is for us to say what they need to go to heaven instead. It is not in error to discuss hell from time to time. Even Jesus (a legally white in the US) man mentioned hell from time to time, but the greater emphasis is on what God would have for us.

I would like to know Jesus' specific doctrine on hell-in the ancient Aramaic that he spoke.  The problem is, no one really knows what Jesus said because we don't have the earliest accounts written in the language he spoke.  We have recalls from at least 35 years after he died written in Greek.  In those days culture was very much bound up with language and religion, to an extent unknown in today's world, as there is much more cross-fertilization of language, culture and religion that there was back then.  There is not much mention of hell in the Old Testament, and very little in the many worlds of present Jewish theology.

One can certainly discuss hell, who is going there, who isn't and why. But this discussion much ask more questions than it answers, not only about theology, epistemology, the New Testament, ancient languages, cultures and religions, but also about those who like to talk about it.

[KnightofChrist]

If you do believe in Hell, how can you not care about that?

I believe he does care. I think the "so what" was more of a way of saying it doesn't matter if the majority denies hell, hell still exist.

[Era Might]

People who make it a point of believing in hell (or anything) are going to reflect processes and and circumstances and assumptions they are unaware of. Nobody believing in hell today believes in the same hell as Dante...that's why we can speak of people being uniquely "medieval," they reflected that "somethingness" that made medievals uniquely themselves. A person deconstructing beliefs according to race, gender, whatever is likely going to fit a certain modern profile too...and will probably be white, liberal, probably middle class. Little old Mexican ladies aren't noted for their deconstructions of the Virgin of Guadalupe, they just believe. There's something to be said about just believing and not having to constantly footnote your life, though it has its dangers too.

But I'm reminded of a story I've heard about a man who goes to a shrink and thinks he's a piece of corn, and one day he's cured, he no longer believes he's a piece of corn, but a few minutes later he comes back to the shrink and says there's a big chicken outside and he might eat me. The shrink says, but you're cured, you know you're not a piece of corn...and the man responds, yes, I know, but does the chicken know?

It's hard to shake an instinctual belief in something like hell....even a person who once once very religious has a hard time shaking the basic fear and awe they had, even if they no longer express it literally in their lives. Sometimes the person who's more scary is not the one who still believes literally, but the one who thinks they don't, but deep down are still running from what they fear most. Is hell real? I don't think so, but the idea behind it is recognizably human, fire, reward, punishment. These can easily be replaced by things like bombs and war in a world where the same impulse toward destruction and revenge are turned to this world rather than the next...there is more to fear than the religious zealot.

[Yaatee]

I have a friend who said that in the West, hell is a place that's hot with no water; in China, hell is a place that's cold with no food, and for parents, hell is a place where the children need less sleep than their parents...

[MarysLittleFlower]

If Christians believe that Hell is a real place where lots of people actually go, and it's the most horrible thing imaginable, and it lasts forever; how come they do so little to prevent others from going there? For example a parent is very concerned about his child going to school, not taking drugs, etc. If this parent believes his child could at any time die and go to hell, shouldn't preventing this be much higher in his priorities? Isn't Hell much worse than failing at school or taking drugs or whatever could happen to you in this life?

Similarly, if Christians think baptism is necessary for salvation, and that outside of salvation our default destination is Hell, shouldn't they be much more concerned about getting people baptised? Isn't this way more important than schools, hospitals, etc.?

Side note: I'm aware the Church says some people not baptised may be saved through some virtual form of baptism, but there's a lot of uncertainty there. Baptism still remains the only way we know one can be saved, as far as I'm aware.

the Saints were concerned so should we if someone is not really concerned maybe they need to meditate on the reality of eternity, or grow in love for neighbour. However, since so much of avoiding hell depends on free will and a persons response to God, we can't "make" someone go to Heaven. I'm not sure what you mean about not much being done. The number one thing that brings conversion to others is not trying to convince them with arguments or human efforts, however good, but by prayer and sacrifice for them. St John Vianney was a priest in a little town who brought hundreds of thousands of souls to God who visited him because of his holiness, strong interior life, prayers, sacrifices. Some looked at him or heard a few simple words and converted. We would help others be saved primarily by becoming saints ourselves and supernatural works of prayer and penance, not human natural ways... Because conversion comes from God, not us. There are also victim souls who offer themselves to God for the world. Sadly many today have watered down the teaching on hell or don't believe in it. That's just what we should avoid. God's Mercy is stronger but He doesn't force it on us, we need to give our 'yes'.

[MarysLittleFlower]

St Faustina who lived last century was shown hell. Its useful to look that up. Its much worse than people might think or feel here.

[MarysLittleFlower]

To be honest I'm confused after I went back and read some of the discussion... Firstly the worst suffering in hell is loss of God. I invite anyone to look up St Faustinas or other Saints visions of it - the main part of the visions is this spiritual suffering. Then Saints also wrote on the fire in hell - which we don't know an extreme amount about, perhaps, but it shows the reality of hell - its not some abstract place that no one can imagine at all so they stop caring about it. Secondly, I don't think people post about hell to gloat. Neither is it a man's topic. Is St Faustina a man? I posted about hell too. Its a doctrine of the Church and its tragic to think of souls being lost - that's why its mentioned I think. What kind of a Christian would be glad to see someone go to hell, when Christ suffered unimaginable agonies to save their soul. I don't spend my days panicking with fear about the devil, I try to love God and mostly God is who I think of. My emphasis on spirituality and devotions doesn't keep me from being concerned about hell and its not a contradiction to post about it. If we knew the grief Jesus has for lost souls, our love for Jesus would cause us to care about hell even more. The Saints who loved God the most cared the most. I can assume that others who post about hell also do it for same reason, not to gloat and not because they're a man - I don't understand why women wouldnt post on hell. Its not a guy topic. Its a Catholic topic. Our Lady of Fatima showed hell to the children - and they did penances for sinners. Its an act of love. 

[MarysLittleFlower]

Several things.  Most people, Christians or otherwise don't believe in Hell.  Christians, believing in hell or not, tend to baptize their children shortly after birth.

It is my understanding that the Catholic Church exempts from hell  those outside its compass like hundreds of millions of Hindus, Buddhists and Shintoists, plus the Jews.  People who honestly don't believe in Christianity are not rejecting hell, and other doctrines,  they just don't believe in them.  Being unbaptised used to send you to limbo; I don't know what the current belief is on that.  To qualify for hell you have to commit a mortal sin, something serious, against church law, to which you assent.  Rejecting a belief because you honestly don't believe in it is not a mortal sin.

Yaatee, I'm sorry but I'm quite sure this is not the Church teaching.. the Church doesn't exempt non Christians from hell - in fact, it's harder to be saved without knowing the truth even because it's not invincible ignorance that saves, it's following the graces you've been given and natural law *while* being truly invincibly ignorant. It's harder because there is less grace. It doesn't mean no one makes it in that situation - God looks at the individual and we can't judge their particular soul and amount of ignorance - but it's not easy, which is why Christians are called to evangelise. Also, we can't say that all or even most non Christians are invincibly ignorant. Invincible ignorance means being ignorant completely through no fault of your own, where even if you tried, you wouldn't find out the truth through ordinary means. That limits it by a lot and given that grace is so important in resisting sin, it's hard to resist sin in that situation either. However, again we don't judge individual people. The Syllabus of Errors condemns the view as heretical to say that we can reasonably hope for all/most non Christians to be saved - this is as a group.. because it is that hard to be saved, even for us! However, - this is not about judging individuals - that we leave to God, because we don't know the extent of their ignorance. I know this might be a 'tough teaching' in the Church but it doesn't mean God doesn't wish to save these people.. He really does, and tries to. But this is why the Church must evangelize and try to help souls - because it's not easy.

As for Christians not believing in hell.. I don't know your own personal views, but - the teaching on hell is a doctrine. If people reject it, they are rejecting a doctrine of the Church that as Catholics we are bound to believe. If a Catholic rejects the doctrine of hell, that is in fact a sin, because it's the sin of heresy. Either it's material heresy where they just don't know the Church teaching and have good will (not a personal sin for them). Or, it's formal heresy where it is a sin. We need to believe as Catholics that doctrines come from Christ, in the Church, and are not humanly made - the doctrines on salvation included. If a non Catholic doesn't believe in hell, they also don't believe in  God or Jesus, - and then it all depends on whether they're culpably ignorant. If they know and still choose to not believe, - are they trying to believe and searching for the truth? then God would probably show them, because He always responds to that. Or, are they just living a life with hardness of heart towards the truth, even if they are not hateful towards it? I mean, sin keeps us spiritually blind and hardened of heart and that actually increases culpability, rather than decreases it - unless we're truly ignorant through no fault of our own. So I'm saying that not believing in Christianity is more complex and sins can keep a person rejecting God because they don't want to face their sinfulness too. HOWEVER... we don't look at particular people and analyze where they are. We can't know. If someone doesn't believe in God, I can't say why and if they're open, or ignorant, or in fact anything - however, I want them to find God, because the Church is the safe ship that will get us to Heaven and outside the Church, we're just swimming in the water trying not to sink, not knowing where we are. I'm a convert and I know what it's like being outside the Church. I was very confused and living in sin when I was younger.

God bless