Nihil Obstat Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 so believing the wrong thing even if you don't know it's wrong can have negative consequences? So if my understanding of the trinity is off then I'm going to suffer from that? Or if I have no idea what the difference between Christ having two natures or one means in any practical sense bad things are coming for me? . . . c.rap I hope there's not gonna be a pencil and paper test at the pearly gates or I am super screwed. There can be consequences besides the lack of sanctifying grace. Kind of what purgatory is for. One would probably have a heck of a lot of purgation ahead of him if he spent his entire life as a material heretic who was, somehow, blissfully unaware of his heresy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice_nine Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 great . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 great . . . Hence plenary indulgences, the Sabbatine privilege, the Apostolic Pardon, etc., etc.. The Church provides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peace Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 There can be consequences besides the lack of sanctifying grace. Kind of what purgatory is for. One would probably have a heck of a lot of purgation ahead of him if he spent his entire life as a material heretic who was, somehow, blissfully unaware of his heresy. But not necessarily more purgation than will await you or me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 But not necessarily more purgation than will await you or me. There's no way of knowing. Heresy is a very serious failing. Comparatively speaking it is one of the most serious sins we could commit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice_nine Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 so I don't understand what the hypostatic union is, but I'm like "yeah sure the church says it's legit, sounds good to me." Do I pass the heresy test on that one? I should get a sticker or something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice_nine Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Hence plenary indulgences, the Sabbatine privilege, the Apostolic Pardon, etc., etc.. The Church provides. ok yeah good I totally know what all of those things are without googling them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 so I don't understand what the hypostatic union is, but I'm like "yeah sure the church says it's legit, sounds good to me." Do I pass the heresy test on that one? I should get a sticker or something Sure. I do not understand lots of things, but I assent to everything the Church teaches. But I also make a conscious and very serious effort to avoid all heresies. ok yeah good I totally know what all of those things are without googling them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peace Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 There's no way of knowing. Heresy is a very serious failing. Comparatively speaking it is one of the most serious sins we could commit. What type of heresy are you referring to now? It would seem to me that if what you are referring to were one of the most serious sins we could commit then one would not be facing purgatory for it, but rather hell. The "blissfully unaware" type of heresy that you refer to would appear to rank lower than most serious sins, because it presupposes a lack of knowledge (whereas a sin such as murder rarely lacks knowledge). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 If you are Catholic, you believe in what the Church teaches on (a) the Sacrament of Matrimony, (b) the sinfulness of sodomy. These two points are incompatible with any support for 'gay marriage'. So it is inherently impossible for a Catholic to support 'gay marriage'; the moment he does, he becomes an apostate. If the question is why do people who identify as Roman Catholic and who attend Mass at least every Sunday support gay marriage, than the answer is that since the 1960s a large part of the Roman Catholic clergy has fallen into the heresy of Modernism and has misguided the faithful. How are they an apostate if the state does not force the Holy priesthood to marry homosexuals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 What type of heresy are you referring to now? It would seem to me that if what you are referring to were one of the most serious sins we could commit then one would not be facing purgatory for it, but rather hell. The "blissfully unaware" type of heresy that you refer to would appear to rank lower than most serious sins, because it presupposes a lack of knowledge (whereas a sin such as murder rarely lacks knowledge). We are talking about culpability as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthfinder Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 I'll clarify my previous post: sin has both spiritual and natural (that is, of this world) consequences. So even if you are not morally culpable for a sin, that doesn't mean that there won't be temporal consequences in the here and now. For example, gross overeating is gluttony and hence an offence against God, but even if you didn't know gluttony was sin, because God has created us and the natural world, the natural world is ordered to cooperate with God, and thus overeating will have real earthly consequences, be it feeling sick or gaining unhealthy amounts of weight. I am not saying, however, that all illness is a result of personal sin (so please don't think I'm saying that so-and-so died a terrible, drawn out death because when they were eight they once ate too many chocolates). Granted, "the wages of sin is death" but Christ has "wrested from the devil his power over death." Most heresies have tangible trickle-down effects as well; the Albigensians' beliefs, while focused on the nature of God, affected their daily lives, diets, and marriages (or lack thereof). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yaatee Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 If you are Catholic, you believe in what the Church teaches on (a) the Sacrament of Matrimony, (b) the sinfulness of sodomy. These two points are incompatible with any support for 'gay marriage'. So it is inherently impossible for a Catholic to support 'gay marriage'; the moment he does, he becomes an apostate. If the question is why do people who identify as Roman Catholic and who attend Mass at least every Sunday support gay marriage, than the answer is that since the 1960s a large part of the Roman Catholic clergy has fallen into the heresy of Modernism and has misguided the faithful. They are the so-called "cherry pickers". They don't support many RC teachings, probably starting with birth control. This was the great wedge splitting the Catholic Church into a small minority of observers and a vast majority of non-observers. They aren't quite token Catholics, but close. They probably now know gays and gay couples, may not be married themselves, but are "living in sin", and admire anyone who wants to get married. This is especially true in my state, which has a high hispanic population, mostly Catholic, with many, many unmarried couples, many with children. And step-children from previous "relationships"--that's the giveaway word, if you want people to disapprove of. One couple I know adopted his child from a previous "relationship", started living together wit his current wife, had a second child (for him), got married then with a huge white wedding, and had a third. Another person's partner (straight) has a child from a previous "relationship", is living with the current, and they have a ten-year old,---and are unmarried. He got taken to the cleaners with a previous divorce. And so it goes. The Church is trying to deal with this, under Francis' big tent. In my state, they have billboards advertising marriage . You, I suspect, believe in a small tent. Are you married? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catlick Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 They are the so-called "cherry pickers". They don't support many RC teachings, probably starting with birth control. This was the great wedge splitting the Catholic Church into a small minority of observers and a vast majority of non-observers. They aren't quite token Catholics, but close. They probably now know gays and gay couples, may not be married themselves, but are "living in sin", and admire anyone who wants to get married. This is especially true in my state, which has a high hispanic population, mostly Catholic, with many, many unmarried couples, many with children. And step-children from previous "relationships"--that's the giveaway word, if you want people to disapprove of. One couple I know adopted his child from a previous "relationship", started living together wit his current wife, had a second child (for him), got married then with a huge white wedding, and had a third. Another person's partner (straight) has a child from a previous "relationship", is living with the current, and they have a ten-year old,---and are unmarried. He got taken to the cleaners with a previous divorce. And so it goes. The Church is trying to deal with this, under Francis' big tent. In my state, they have billboards advertising marriage . You, I suspect, believe in a small tent. Are you married? Why the lame suspicions? You seem to suffer from the cliche idea that people who believe in traditional Catholic morality don't have firsthand experience with irregular situations. How wrong can you be... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yaatee Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 No. No assumptions. In the state where I live, I never make assumptions. About anything. Just askin'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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