living in the world

[Benedictus]

I thought of St. Ignatius of Loyola and St. Josemaria Escriva. They both had lots to say on living a full daily life, turning the most basic works and struggles into opportunities for sanctification. I had close contact with Opus Dei whilst at University and they helped me in many ways at that time in terms of daily dedication, routine and offering things to God. Ignatian spirituality, at least for me, works with this fairly well as it encourages finding God within you, other people and everything else around you. It's very mission focused within daily life and it's that which drives many, religious and lay, to find Ignatian thought useful.

In terms of convents and contemplative life - monks used to tell me the most difficult thing about their life was living with the other monks 24/7/365 for the rest of their lives. In some respects I think monastic life would be the hardest, mostly because you can't escape yourself or the other people When I was discerning it was so weird. I would stay in a monastery and find my mind would run like crazy -  I would dislike certain monks or something about them and my mind would come up with reasons. All unfounded and fleeting thoughts. I would also go to the community cemetery and feel freaked out that if I joined I would eventually die and be buried there. The monks said this was typical as the devil likes to play those gamesI found the apostolic orders provided a work to keep those thoughts at arms length

[marigold]

I know what you mean... I go through the world every day and see all the things that I used to like but now I don't feel interested in them.. And I know I can just live my own life and I do, but somehow I just want to go somewhere and live aa more simple prayerful life. I try to do that where I am but sometimes I want it to be deeper. And being around all the worldly things just makes me feel it more. I wish I could go to some lonely mountain like St Francis and Mount Alverna and just pray - and then I think, I'll probably not make it a day and go back to my little apartment! Haha. Contemplative life and leaving everything is scary. Not leaving things is painful in another way - I agree it feels like not doing what you feel drawn in your soul to do. How I am hoping to live now, while I'm working and paying my loans - is to concentrate on prayer and try to make my life simpler in terms of possessions,  etc. However when I do this and then go out into the world, I am reminded of the past and there's a contrast and the worldly things just feel so empty... And if I remain there too long or am too involved my concupiscence eventually draws me to those things. But I lose my peace when I become attached to them. I believe for someone who wants to be consecrated, its important not to have attachments and to make Jesus your only treasure in life. I find when I participate too much in worldly things with an enjoyment of them, I get pulled away and my heart becomes divided. I'm not saying its wrong to have fun, but it depends... Jesus went to the wedding but He had such an effect on the couple that they wanted perfect chastity. He did everything out of charity. Also I'm sure it was a virtuous event not a modern party. I read the Holy Family only kept a third of what they had and lived a very simple mortified life.. I find when I participate in things that are more worldly or more than I'm obligated to (if I am), my heart becomes attached to whatever it is - nice food, nicer clothing, amusements... I am not saying its wrong to have fun but I prefer a quiter dinner with good friends over a party. When I went, it was a type of a suffering and I felt its not for me. For recreation I prefer something like crafts etc.. Or a walk through nature... Maybe it depends on personality too. But there are certain things that just don't seem to have a good effct though i can try to think of God there too.

​That's what I was getting at. For me at least, it is very much about salvation - even my survival as a Christian. I haven't wanted to voice that, partly for fear of wording it clumsily and freaking people out, and partly because we on VS (myself included) do like emphasising religious life as being one healthy choice among many, perhaps as a reaction to other extremes in RC culture which would idolise it or abolish it completely.

All I know right now is I'm weak, and monastery life is that 'sure haven' where everything is oriented towards Christ. Admitting your weakness isn't nice or fashionable but it is one of the concrete reasons I want to be a nun, and I just have to trust that Christ's power really is made perfect in weakness, like St. Paul said.

 

[MarysLittleFlower]

It is said that someone's vocation is where God has prepared graces to help with their salvation... Of course this shouldn't mean that we choose a vocation out of fear, but there is this point that it will help in our salvation. For some people their call becomes so obvious that it becomes a matter of cooperation with grace. Like if its so obvious and they reject it, they would not be cooperating with grace. Of course if the person is trying and discerning they are cooperating - at the place where they are now its not a popular idea but its the traditional view of vocations.. It doesn't take away freedom and it shouldn't be a fearful thing, and it doesn't make other vocations objectively bad - but subjectively, there is something that is God's Will... And if someone is drawn to being a nun that is significant because religious life is a higher state and that is not something we have a natural inclination to... So its important to take it seriously and discern it - if God draws them to it, if they are open, that is where they would be able to love Him best... Other states would be like a choice to love Him less and cooperate less with grace, especially if their call is obvious - more gravity then in rejecting it. its like a chain and if the link is lost that affects the rest... Or like a part in a machine that needs to be there for the other parts. Of course, not saying anyone here is rejecting it, just trying! So we just need to keep trying  

Edited June 22, 2015 by MarysLittleFlower

[marigold]

It is said that someone's vocation is where God has prepared graces to help with their salvation... Of course this shouldn't mean that we choose a vocation out of fear, but there is this point that it will help in our salvation. For some people their call becomes so obvious that it becomes a matter of cooperation with grace. Like if its so obvious and they reject it, they would not be cooperating with grace. Of course if the person is trying and discerning they are cooperating - at the place where they are now its not a popular idea but its the traditional view of vocations.. It doesn't take away freedom and it shouldn't be a fearful thing, and it doesn't make other vocations objectively bad - but subjectively, there is something that is God's Will... And if someone is drawn to being a nun that is significant because religious life is a higher state and that is not something we have a natural inclination to... So its important to take it seriously and discern it - if God draws them to it, if they are open, that is where they would be able to love Him best... Other states would be like a choice to love Him less and cooperate less with grace, especially if their call is obvious - more gravity then in rejecting it. its like a chain and if the link is lost that affects the rest... Or like a part in a machine that needs to be there for the other parts. Of course, not saying anyone here is rejecting it, just trying! So we just need to keep trying  

​Yeah, let's just keep trying!

[TheresaThoma]

One thing I have found is to carve out some silence in your day. You can still be doing something (sorting laundry, doing dishes, making dinner) but turn your music off and try to find some stillness. I love making bread for this reason my hands are busy but my mind is left free to pray and listen. I find it easier to be less distracted by worldly things when I spend some deliberate time in silence and silent prayer. It helps me build up that "inner cloister".

If you use public transport try Pray as You Go.http://www.pray-as-you-go.org/home/ it is a podcast that is guided meditations on the daily readings.

[Era Might]

From another perspective, consider that you really have not entered into your trial. Christ was driven into the desert, and it was there alone that he had to face his greatest temptations, greater than any he was surrounded by "in the world." It was alone on the cross, too, that he cried out asking why God had forsaken him, and it was once his Apostles left his side that he had to face enter into his final solitude. If you are looking for peace once you enter into solitude, you may have a lot to learn once you are there. Writers like Thomas Merton often talk about busybody monks and nuns who never really learn what solitude is, because they never really enter into it even though they are surrounded by it. I sometimes think that we should be careful what we wish for...we want a vocation, a meaning to our lives, but to have a vocation (in the broad sense, not referring to religious life) is the scariest and hardest thing in the world, because then you have to follow it, and what is the story of our lives but one running away after another, like Jonah boarding a ship to escape his call. The great paradox is that to have a vocation is to have the way by which we become truly who we are...and we don't want to be who we are, it's not easy to do, especially when you enter into solitude, because there you have no distractions to entertain you while you avoid yourself.

[NadaTeTurbe]

Mary, when I read you, I really have the feelings that your soul is longing to be alone with her beloved. Your soul want this now, but it will want it later, in the monastery (if, God willing, you enter one), and all your life. You will never stop feeling this, needing this. We are never "close enough" to God to feel a perfect peace. You have to accept this, that our vocation, as human, is to want to see God. We will have this desire of solitude, prayer, and silence, all our life. 
I second the poster who suggested to take tangible action to really discern seriously with a community  Or at least a spirituality (carmel, dominican...). Also, if you have not, try to read and study the Cathechism of the Church, from number 2697 to number 2751. It's about prayer.  

I really liked to read all the message in this post. It was really inspirationnal. 

[MarysLittleFlower]

From another perspective, consider that you really have not entered into your trial. Christ was driven into the desert, and it was there alone that he had to face his greatest temptations, greater than any he was surrounded by "in the world." It was alone on the cross, too, that he cried out asking why God had forsaken him, and it was once his Apostles left his side that he had to face enter into his final solitude. If you are looking for peace once you enter into solitude, you may have a lot to learn once you are there. Writers like Thomas Merton often talk about busybody monks and nuns who never really learn what solitude is, because they never really enter into it even though they are surrounded by it. I sometimes think that we should be careful what we wish for...we want a vocation, a meaning to our lives, but to have a vocation (in the broad sense, not referring to religious life) is the scariest and hardest thing in the world, because then you have to follow it, and what is the story of our lives but one running away after another, like Jonah boarding a ship to escape his call. The great paradox is that to have a vocation is to have the way by which we become truly who we are...and we don't want to be who we are, it's not easy to do, especially when you enter into solitude, because there you have no distractions to entertain you while you avoid yourself.

Era Might I see what you are saying and I agree that silence can be very hard! I'm trying to follow a particular way of life this year that has shown me that. I think silence and solitude are very good but the person would get other trials and often really bizarre temptations that don't happen as often to people with a very active life. Both get trials but different and they can be harder for the contemplative... If we read about the desert Fathers that might be very obvious... I am not a contemplative nun and I even noticed difficulties in my tiny attempts at silence I'm only beginning too. I hope its not like I'm trying to run away and I know that there would still be trials. But at the same time theres this desire to spend time alone with God.. Not just for the silence itself, but to be with Him. Its probably harder than I imagine.. Of course Adoration is great after a loud busy day. If all I had was silence I'd need a strong interior life to keep it up. But there is still this restlessness that 'all is vanity', except God... I know we should be aware of His Presence during the day and I try that... But sometimes you just want solitude with Him. 

[MarysLittleFlower]

One thing I have found is to carve out some silence in your day. You can still be doing something (sorting laundry, doing dishes, making dinner) but turn your music off and try to find some stillness. I love making bread for this reason my hands are busy but my mind is left free to pray and listen. I find it easier to be less distracted by worldly things when I spend some deliberate time in silence and silent prayer. It helps me build up that "inner cloister".

If you use public transport try Pray as You Go.http://www.pray-as-you-go.org/home/ it is a podcast that is guided meditations on the daily readings.

That is true and I like doing things with my hands too for the same reason

[MarysLittleFlower]

Mary, when I read you, I really have the feelings that your soul is longing to be alone with her beloved. Your soul want this now, but it will want it later, in the monastery (if, God willing, you enter one), and all your life. You will never stop feeling this, needing this. We are never "close enough" to God to feel a perfect peace. You have to accept this, that our vocation, as human, is to want to see God. We will have this desire of solitude, prayer, and silence, all our life. 
I second the poster who suggested to take tangible action to really discern seriously with a community  Or at least a spirituality (carmel, dominican...). Also, if you have not, try to read and study the Cathechism of the Church, from number 2697 to number 2751. It's about prayer.  

I really liked to read all the message in this post. It was really inspirationnal. 

I see what you mean, I'll probably feel this way even in the monastery and even those who reach a high level of union with God on earth still have the Beatific Vision to wait for also apparently the more God reveals Himself to you the more you want to love Him and to be with Him... So this desire probably grows with contemplative life. If God is like a consuming fire, the more He reveals Himself the more we want to be totally consumed in Him.. In the Christian understanding of course. Reading the writings of the Saints you really get a sense of that. Yet I also think though its painful to feel this longing for God, there's such a joy in it too that the soul wants for it to increase... So if contemplative life only increases it, that is more reason to want it rather than not want it maybe the desire for contemplative life is a desire to go deeper into this even though it will only increase... But the more we love the more we want to love and only know our Beloved Jesus  

[BarbTherese]

From another perspective, consider that you really have not entered into your trial. Christ was driven into the desert, and it was there alone that he had to face his greatest temptations, greater than any he was surrounded by "in the world." It was alone on the cross, too, that he cried out asking why God had forsaken him, and it was once his Apostles left his side that he had to face enter into his final solitude. If you are looking for peace once you enter into solitude, you may have a lot to learn once you are there. Writers like Thomas Merton often talk about busybody monks and nuns who never really learn what solitude is, because they never really enter into it even though they are surrounded by it. I sometimes think that we should be careful what we wish for...we want a vocation, a meaning to our lives, but to have a vocation (in the broad sense, not referring to religious life) is the scariest and hardest thing in the world, because then you have to follow it, and what is the story of our lives but one running away after another, like Jonah boarding a ship to escape his call. The great paradox is that to have a vocation is to have the way by which we become truly who we are...and we don't want to be who we are, it's not easy to do, especially when you enter into solitude, because there you have no distractions to entertain you while you avoid yourself.

​

Very well said.  A response is here http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/137830-avoiding-debate/?do=findComment&comment=2729541

[TheresaThoma]

Another thought I had was about your desire for a retreat. I'm in a similar situation I would love to go on a silent retreat but can't afford to do so. I have found that I can do my own day "retreats". On the weekends I may go to Mass and then go hiking or visit a shrine nearby. Or even just staying in my apartment and having a quiet day can be a mini retreat. It takes some creativity but it can be done.

[marigold]

From another perspective, consider that you really have not entered into your trial. Christ was driven into the desert, and it was there alone that he had to face his greatest temptations, greater than any he was surrounded by "in the world." It was alone on the cross, too, that he cried out asking why God had forsaken him, and it was once his Apostles left his side that he had to face enter into his final solitude. If you are looking for peace once you enter into solitude, you may have a lot to learn once you are there. Writers like Thomas Merton often talk about busybody monks and nuns who never really learn what solitude is, because they never really enter into it even though they are surrounded by it. I sometimes think that we should be careful what we wish for...we want a vocation, a meaning to our lives, but to have a vocation (in the broad sense, not referring to religious life) is the scariest and hardest thing in the world, because then you have to follow it, and what is the story of our lives but one running away after another, like Jonah boarding a ship to escape his call. The great paradox is that to have a vocation is to have the way by which we become truly who we are...and we don't want to be who we are, it's not easy to do, especially when you enter into solitude, because there you have no distractions to entertain you while you avoid yourself.

​

Mary, when I read you, I really have the feelings that your soul is longing to be alone with her beloved. Your soul want this now, but it will want it later, in the monastery (if, God willing, you enter one), and all your life. You will never stop feeling this, needing this. We are never "close enough" to God to feel a perfect peace. You have to accept this, that our vocation, as human, is to want to see God. We will have this desire of solitude, prayer, and silence, all our life. 
I second the poster who suggested to take tangible action to really discern seriously with a community  Or at least a spirituality (carmel, dominican...). Also, if you have not, try to read and study the Cathechism of the Church, from number 2697 to number 2751. It's about prayer.  

I really liked to read all the message in this post. It was really inspirationnal. 

​

[marigold]

Mary, when I read you, I really have the feelings that your soul is longing to be alone with her beloved. Your soul want this now, but it will want it later, in the monastery (if, God willing, you enter one), and all your life. You will never stop feeling this, needing this. We are never "close enough" to God to feel a perfect peace. You have to accept this, that our vocation, as human, is to want to see God. We will have this desire of solitude, prayer, and silence, all our life. 
I second the poster who suggested to take tangible action to really discern seriously with a community  Or at least a spirituality (carmel, dominican...). Also, if you have not, try to read and study the Cathechism of the Church, from number 2697 to number 2751. It's about prayer.  

I really liked to read all the message in this post. It was really inspirationnal. 

​This is actually profound...

[NadaTeTurbe]

​This is actually profound...

​The desire for God is written in the human heart, because man is created by God and for God; and God never ceases to draw man to himself.

(Cathechism of the Catholic Church number 27.)