Norseman82 Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 and where is your reference to this? I don't see ANY reference to a pope in the bible. He may not have been called "Pope" back then, but the office was there and the present Pope is the successor to St. Peter. You can trace the succession. It should be found in any encyclopedia, maybe even in an almanac. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 He may not have been called "Pope" back then, but the office was there and the present Pope is the successor to St. Peter. You can trace the succession. It should be found in any encyclopedia, maybe even in an almanac. ........... or in the reading room on PhatMass (Ham Spats).................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unshackled Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 May the peace of Christ be with you, Unshackled. It most definitely is! (Rom 10:8-13) :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unshackled Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 May the peace of Christ be with you, Unshackled. What makes you think that Jesus said there is only one way we humans can be given the Holy Spirit and be given hearts that can accept His Word? Acts 7:51 :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robyn Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 He may not have been called "Pope" back then, but the office was there and the present Pope is the successor to St. Peter. You can trace the succession. It should be found in any encyclopedia, maybe even in an almanac. hmmm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasJis Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 Acts 7:51 :D I don't understand. Did you pick the wrong verse?? Acts 7:51 "You stiff-necked people, uncircumcised in heart and ears, you always oppose the Holy Spirit; you are just like your ancestors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 It most definitely is! (Rom 10:8-13) You are forgetting the requirement of Baptism again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 Acts 7:51 :D THis is of course can be applied to anyone. Steven is using it to point out the jews that the do not stay faithful to the Law of Moses themselves. So a verse by itself means little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unshackled Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 You are forgetting the requirement of Baptism again. What part of salvation do you not understand? Baptism does not guarantee salvation. It is a symbol of obedience to the teachings of Christ. If baptism is required for salvation, then Jesus as quoted in the BIBLE is a LIAR. (Luke23:41-43) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 Baptism does not guarantee salvation. It is a symbol of obedience to the teachings of Christ. The only time baptism would guarantee salvation is if a person died right after being baptized. It's just the beginning of a person's salvation process; that alone won't get you into heaven. And as for baptism being a symbol, that's not what the Bible says: Is Baptism Necessary for Salvation? "Go into the whole world and proclaim the gospel to every creature. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved; whoever does not believe will be condemned" (Mark 16:15-16). "Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God" (Jn. 3:5). "It was for no reason except his own faithful love that he saved us, by means of the cleansing water of rebirth and renewal in the Holy Spirit" (Tit. 3:5) "Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ" (1 Pet. 3:21). -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Does Baptism Regenerate Us (Make Us Born Again) in Christ? "Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life" (Romans 6:3-4). "For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ" (Gal. 3:27). "And you were buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead. And you, who were dead in trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, having canceled the bond which stood against us with its legal demands; this he set aside, nailing it to the cross" (Col. 2:12-14). See also Tit. 3:5, above. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Does Baptism Wash Away Sin? "John the baptizer appeared in the wilderness, preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins" (Mark 1:4). "And Peter said to them, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins" (Acts 2:38). "Rise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on his name" (Acts 22:16) "And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God" (1 Cor. 6:11). "Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, with our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water" (Heb 10:22). See also Tit. 3:5 and 1 Pet. 3:21, above. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- If baptism is required for salvation, then Jesus as quoted in the BIBLE is a LIAR. (Luke 23:41-43) Jesus made it clear that baptism is necessary for salvation when he said we must be born again OF WATER AND THE SPIRIT. However, the good thief incident doesn't contradict this -- he was saved through baptism of desire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 What part of salvation do you not understand? Baptism does not guarantee salvation. It is a symbol of obedience to the teachings of Christ. If baptism is required for salvation, then Jesus as quoted in the BIBLE is a LIAR. (Luke23:41-43) St. John 3:5 Jesus answered, "Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit." St. Mark 16:16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved; whoever does not believe will be condemned. 2 Thess 2:15 Therefore, brothers, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught, either by an oral statement or by a letter of ours. Who where these brothers that he was writing to? Where in history are they? http://www.logos.com/products/details/518 You can find all those writings that Logos is selling here: http://www.NewAdvent.org/Fathers/ What are some of the oral statements that haven't been included in the New Testament? Where did the New Testment come from? Did it fall out of the sky? Where did Jesus tell the Apostles to write? Most of the people on earth could not read well into the 1900's. Books had to be hand written until the invention of the printing press in the 16th Century. Until then, how did people learn about God? Who coppied the bible by hand for over 1500 years? Someone had to or we wouldn't have it. If they have been copying the Apostles writings by hand for over 1500 years, then they must be the people spoke of... they must be the brothers of the One True Church - This One Faith... They must have kept historical documents too... we know they could write, they have been proclaiming the Gospel for 2000 years and have been protecting the inspired writings for 1900 years, they grouped them together and called them the New Testament about 1600 years ago.... WHO ARE THEY????? If a church cannot answer that... then it is a false church spoken of in Acts 20:30 and 2 Peter 3:15. God Bless, ironmonk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 Unless you are born of the water and the spirit... Remember this part, when Jesus talked to nichodemus? Baptism is an entrance into the Kingdom. This is the problem with your private interpretation of scripture. You have no unifying interpreting force to guide you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norseman82 Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 (edited) Jesus made it clear that baptism is necessary for salvation when he said we must be born again OF WATER AND THE SPIRIT. However, the good thief incident doesn't contradict this -- he was saved through baptism of desire. In addition, the apostles did not start preaching and baptizing until after they had received the Holy Spirit on Pentecost. then Jesus as quoted in the BIBLE is a LIAR. (Luke23:41-43) Unshackled, Jesus said a lot more things than just Luke 23:41-43. Nice try at an intimidation tactic, but we're not falling for it...... Edited September 11, 2003 by Norseman82 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrysologus Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 What part of salvation do you not understand? Baptism does not guarantee salvation. It is a symbol of obedience to the teachings of Christ. If baptism is required for salvation, then Jesus as quoted in the BIBLE is a LIAR. (Luke23:41-43) Yes, we're liars and we think Jesus is a liar. We actually hate Jesus and really just want people to join our big, evil religious empire. We'd rather worship Mary than Jesus. Oh, and the Bible? Don't even get me started! We REALLY hate the Bible! Oh, if you only knew! It says all these things, which, if people believed them, would let them live happy and free lives and have a personal relationship with God and we couldn't oppress them anymore with all of our burdensome Catholic rules, regulations, and superstitions! That's why we used to burn them, but now we just pretend to like the Bible in order to get people to join us again, but we really just obey the pope of Rome cause he's God, which is why we call him the Holy Father. ...Or maybe we just interpret the Bible differently than you do. Maybe this was a little bit TOO sarcastic... R-E-S-P-E-C-T--Find out what it means to me! Of course, a lot of Catholis also fail to respect what Protestants believe, so maybe I should just shut up now. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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