Being Baptised As Babies?

[Dave]

I don't beliefe the 3 sacriments of initiation are necessary or relevant in MY faith.

Why do you think that? What if it just so turned out that they were?

[ICTHUS]

I don't beliefe the 3 sacriments of initiation are necessary or relevant in MY faith.

The Early Church considered them well and truly necessary in their faith.

If you, with having recieved full knowledge that they are necessary, reject them, you are putting your immortal soul in danger.

[Robyn]

If you, with having recieved full knowledge that they are necessary, reject them, you are putting your immortal soul in danger.

I can see where you are coming from, but it still doesn't mean I believe it.

[Robyn]

Why do you think that?  What if it just so turned out that they were?

I reckon I would know about it by now ;)

[Unshackled]

The Bible clearly talks about “sprinkling” here;

I will sprinkle clean water upon you to cleanse you from all your impurities, and from all your idols I will cleanse you. I will give you a new heart and place a new spirit within you, taking from your bodies your stony hearts and giving you natural hearts. I will put my spirit within you and make you live by my statutes, careful to observe my decrees. (Ezekiel 36:25-26)

Baptism is more than a symbol because symbols can not give us the grace to save us. It can not be more explicit in this regard.

“This prefigured baptism, which saves you now.” (Peter 3:21)

There is not interpretive gymnastics to get around this if you take the Bible seriously.

If I came under original sin by no act of my own through the lack of faith of Adam and Eve the first parents. Why can’t I become reunited to God by no act of my own as a baby though the faith of my parents? It should work both ways dont' you think. The problem is that you believe the non-biblical doctrine that salvation is a one-time event and not a process. This is also very clear in the Bible, “…but whoever endures to the end will be saved. (Matt 10:22)

God bless

If sprinkling is the correct method of baptism, why was Jesus baptised by full immersion . Surely if Jesus is our true example of how to please God then He would show us the only correct method. Mat 3:16

[jasJis]

May the peace of Christ be with you, Unshackled.

What makes you think that Jesus said there is only one way we humans can be given the Holy Spirit and be given hearts that can accept His Word?

[MC Just]

Why does the Catholic Church baptize infants, who have no understanding of what is taking place?

The Catholic Church baptizes infants because Christ wills it. He must will it because He said, ``Suffer the little children, and forbid them not to come to me.'' (Matt. 19:14). According to the Apostle Paul, one cannot truly come to Christ except through Baptism. (Rom. 6:3-4). Christ must will it because the Apostles baptized ``all the people'' (Luke 3:21 ) and whole households (Acts 16:15, 1 Cor. 1:16). Certainly ``all the people'' and whole ``households'' included infants. Christ must will it because He stated categorically that Baptism is a necessary prerequisite for salvation (John 3:5), and He certainly desires the salvation of infants. He must will it because the primitive Christian Church, which had fresh firsthand knowledge of His Will, baptized infants. In the ancient catacombs of Rome the inscriptions on the tombs of infants make mention of their having been baptized. One such inscription reads: ``Here rests Archillia, a newly-baptized; she was one year and five months old; died February 23rd.''

An unbaptized infant is not simply in a ``natural'' state; it is in the state of reprobation, living under the reign of Satan, with the sin of Adam ``staining'' its soul. Therefore infants should be baptized as soon as is reasonably possible--usually within 2-3 weeks of birth. When children grow up with Our Lord dwelling in their souls, they have a powerful protection against sin. Moreover, Our Lord can thereby draw children to a deep love for Himself at a very early age--as He did with St. Therese, St. Maria Goretti, St. Dominic Savio, and Francisco and Jacinta Marto.

[MC Just]

The Bible says that after Christ was baptized He ``came out of the water'' (Matt. 3:16), indicating that He was baptized by total immersion. Why doesn't the Catholic Church also baptize by total immersion instead of by pouring on the head?

The Catholic Church usually baptizes by pouring: 1) because water sufficient for total immersion is not readily obtainable in some localities, 2) because total immersion would be cruel for babies, fatal for some sick people and impossible for some prison inmates, and 3) because the Apostles baptized by pouring. In the Didache, composed by the Apostles, the following procedure for Baptism is prescribed: ``Pour water three times on the head in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.'' The words ``came out of the water'' do not necessarily imply total immersion. They could just as well imply that Christ came up on the shore of the river Jordan after standing ankle deep in the water. This is not to say that the Catholic Church considers Baptism by total immersion invalid--she simply does not consider it practical as a universal form.

[Jake Huether]

God bless

If sprinkling is the correct method of baptism, why was Jesus baptised by full immersion . Surely if Jesus is our true example of how to please God then He would show us the only correct method. Mat 3:16

[[jas]]

What makes you think that Jesus said there is only one way we humans can be given the Holy Spirit and be given hearts that can accept His Word?

<thread hijack>

What makes you think that there is only one true church?

[Dave]

What makes you think that there is only one true church?

Because Jesus made it clear when he made St. Peter the first pope and later when He prayed that all might be one. Is there oneness among Christians? No! There are thousands upon thousands of denominations that don't agree on Christian beliefs! Only the Catholic Church has proven itself to be Jesus' Church because it has existed for 2000 years, teaching the same Truth that never changes.

[[jas]]

Okay, my reply there probably wasn't too obvious that it was extrapolating jasJis's comment to show inconsistency in what you're saying.

I think I'll start another thread to say why I disagree with your answer, Dave.

EDIT: speeling.

Edited September 9, 2003 by [jas]

[Robyn]

Because Jesus made it clear when he made St. Peter the first pope and later when He prayed that all might be one.

and where is your reference to this? I don't see ANY reference to a pope in the bible.

[cmotherofpirl]

and where is your reference to this? I don't see ANY reference to a pope in the bible.

Pope means father. It is a title used to describe the Bishop of Rome who is head of the Church.

Peter was first head of the Church. He was succeeded by a line of bishops ever since.

Remember the Church is 300 years older than the compiled new testament. So there was 300 years of church history already passed before the New Testament was agreed on.

THe New Testament is not a complete description of every aspect of the Church but a compilatin of memeories tat the Church thought important to preserve.

[Dave]

and where is your reference to this? I don't see ANY reference to a pope in the bible.

Then I guess you must have missed Matthew 16:18-19:

And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.

I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.