Trangender identity/language

[Ice_nine]

So since Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner has been all over the news and my newsfeed I thought I'd throw this question out there. I tried to make the poll options cover most conceivable responses but if you have another way to respond, feel free to expound.

[Anomaly]

I'm guessing the proper phrasing is Caitlyn née Bruce Jenner.   I have no problem with her eventual decision from what I've read and seen on TV.  I hope she finds comfort and happiness.

[Maggyie]

It's polite to address people as they wish to be addressed. Our gendered pronouns are an accident of language (as compared to one's sex, which no one can change). 

[Benedictus]

I think it's a matter of respect and manners to use the name people tell you. I don't see any benefit of not doing so.

[KnightofChrist]

I wonder what folks would say and how they would react if instead of this being sexual it was historical or fictional. If Bruce Jenner thought himself to be Bruce Lee or Bruce Wayne how much would that change the variable? I believe it would make us much less likely to comply with his unhealthy delusion. I also doubt he would be praised by society.

[Nihil Obstat]

I wonder what folks would say and how they would react if instead of this being sexual it was historical or fictional. If Bruce Jenner thought himself to be Bruce Lee or Bruce Wayne how much would that change the variable? I believe it would make us much less likely to comply with his unhealthy delusion. I also doubt he would be praised by society.

Or trans-species?

[Gabriela]

As a teacher, I object to this. I read that, at some university (Berkeley?), teachers are now expected to learn and use whatever pronouns a student wishes to be referred to as—and there are a lot more than he/she. I've had 90 students in a semester before. How am I supposed to keep track if all—or even half—of them want to be called "ze" or "de"? I can't even remember all their names.

It's absurd.

[hotpink]

As a teacher, I object to this. I read that, at some university (Berkeley?), teachers are now expected to learn and use whatever pronouns a student wishes to be referred to as—and there are a lot more than he/she. I've had 90 students in a semester before. How am I supposed to keep track if all—or even half—of them want to be called "ze" or "de"? I can't even remember all their names.

It's absurd.

​Not a teacher but I work with students.  I work with WAY more than 90 students, too.  My answer is based off of circumstance.  If a student walks up to me and introduces themselves as Sally, and the next day dresses up differently and sais they are Dan then I will role with that.  As long as they are neat and presentable, its really not my job to judge what gender they are.

In personal circumstances it might depend.  One of the 5yo's at my apartment complex has 2 olders sisters and stole their makeup and for about a month decided he was a girl.  I still called him Johnathon and referred to him as a he becuase it was a childhood game, the same way his compadre, a little girl, was a horse.  At the end of the day both were still kids playing games.  Quite frankly I can't keep track of what the kids are playing at....beucase walking to the pool they are my little pony but then in the pool they are a doplhin named winter? which apparently is the new flipper.  I believe children are children and shouldn't be defined or restricted by gender.

For teens, I think that gender exploration should be handled like adults.  You want to dress in a suit and not a dress, fine.  Just be neat and don't get mad if I don't use the right word.  It is up to the person to tell me what they prefer, not me to guess.  And if I don't rememember it's a mistake, not a slight.

[hotpink]

I wonder what folks would say and how they would react if instead of this being sexual it was historical or fictional. If Bruce Jenner thought himself to be Bruce Lee or Bruce Wayne how much would that change the variable? I believe it would make us much less likely to comply with his unhealthy delusion. I also doubt he would be praised by society.

​Although people don't realize it there's a number of people---almost as high as transgender but much lesser known--who believe that they have appendages that don't really belong to them...like hands, feet, legs and arms, eyes, etc.  Doctors have amputated healthy limbs before becuase these make the person so uncomfortable that they often nearly kill themselves trying to remove them.

[CrossCuT]

As a teacher, I object to this. I read that, at some university (Berkeley?), teachers are now expected to learn and use whatever pronouns a student wishes to be referred to as—and there are a lot more than he/she. I've had 90 students in a semester before. How am I supposed to keep track if all—or even half—of them want to be called "ze" or "de"? I can't even remember all their names.

It's absurd.

I dont think it is absurd. Its your job to do what you can to teach as well as foster a comfortable environment in which the children can learn. The last thing they need is their teacher taking a political stance on a issue that is so personal to their identity. I have had teachers in the past proclaim their political or otherwise controversial views in class to the students and it is always a source for stress which is inappropriate.

I have had teachers in school who teach 1 class of 100+ students and they learn the names. They are very positive and energetic people who LOVE what they do and strive to get to know the students as best they can. We would make note cards with our names and some fun facts along with a picture so our teacher to go over them.

If you accidentally call a student by the wrong pronoun, I am sure they will correct you and that incident will likely stick in your mind and you wont forget again. I wouldnt expect them to be upset if you didnt know if the first place, but I would avoid adopting an attitude of giving up as a first resort.

[KnightofChrist]

As a teacher, I object to this. I read that, at some university (Berkeley?), teachers are now expected to learn and use whatever pronouns a student wishes to be referred to as—and there are a lot more than he/she. I've had 90 students in a semester before. How am I supposed to keep track if all—or even half—of them want to be called "ze" or "de"? I can't even remember all their names.

It's absurd.

​You can give in to the world or follow truth and Christ. Following the world will be easier, you won't have to worry about causing trouble, nor loosing your job. If you follow in Christ' bloodly foot steps you must be prepared to be abused as He was abused for teaching truth. This world will become more and more hostile to those that do not give in to it.

[hotpink]

​You can give in to the world or follow truth and Christ. Following the world will be easier, you won't have to worry about causing trouble, nor loosing your job. If you follow in Christ' bloodly foot steps you must be prepared to be abused as He was abused for teaching truth. This world will become more and more hostile to those that do not give in to it.

​LOL and how are you going to enforce that?  Pull down their pantaloons and check their genetals? 

[KnightofChrist]

​LOL and how are you going to enforce that?  Pull down their pantaloons and check their genetals? 

​That would be immoral. I merely suggested that she not sell out to the world and warned her that not doing so would lead to hostility towards her and others who do not give in to the world. Your mockery helps show that.

[Era Might]

Or trans-species?

​Good documentary about this by Werner Herzog, "Grizzly Man," about a guy who lived with bears but eventually was killed, apparently from an outsider bear who did not know him and was hostile and hungry.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grizzly_Man

[hotpink]

​That would be immoral. I merely suggested that she not sell out to the world and warned her that not doing so would lead to hostility towards her and others who do not give in to the world. Your mockery helps show that.

​No, I'm just pointing out that your version of "selling out" is ridiculous.  Between makeup and surgery these days we have no legitmate way of knowing a person's gender.  There are naturally hairy women, as well as slender, babyfaced men.   You can't really tell.  And if you don't know someone from birth how do you really know that they aren't trying to correct their actions and calling the person "Dave" when they were "Sandra" but were actually born "Dave" and decided not to become "Sandra" but you only knew them as such is well--reality.  Unsucessful transitons happen, and I think at more of a rate than people think.  Now, I work with young people prone to fickleness and flights of fancy, but still, they are a part of the whole.

My point is that this is not a hill to die on, because it is not one that is apparently clear in normal discussion.  Some things are easier.  I don't  use husband and wife or spouse for homosexual couples, I use partner as the church teaches they cannot have a natural marriage. This is something I can control.  But if a person presents themselves to me as male, I'm going to talk to them like a human being and go with that.  If I see someone stealing and I tell the convience store cashiere, "That woman stole a candy bar" and the "woman" flips out and declares themselves male, I'd just turn to the cashier and say, "That man is stealing."