White Privilege?

[MarysLittleFlower]

I don't know what it's like to be a person of another race.. (I'm white). However, being an immigrant, I wouldn't say that I experienced much of the "privilege" whether it exists or not. I lived in an immigrant region of the city that has more poverty, most people lived in cheap apartment buildings and well educated people struggled to find work. My family struggled financially and so did other immigrant families. In school, I was bullied for having an accent and being different. So that's just what I've seen.

I don't know if it's the "white privilege" or maybe the privilege of looking like you "come from here"... as someone mentioned a person who looks like a different ethnicity but has a very Anglicized name, American way of acting, etc, - might have it easier than someone who has kept more of their heritage. Maybe if they kept more of their heritage AND they are of a non white race, that makes it more obvious, so they are prejudiced against, I don't know. I don't know if it's different in the US - I live in Canada. Maybe there's more racial prejudice there. In Canada, if you immigrate from somewhere else expect to live in a poor part of the city with other immigrants, and maybe have a labour job even if you are well educated... there are exceptions, but that seems to be fairly common. I'm not saying it's a terrible place with no opportunity - there is opportunity, and it's a great place if you came from a war torn country or a bad situation, but immigrants are near the bottom of the social ladder unless they came really rich with many connections. I guess it's logical coming to a new country. But I wouldn't say that there's a privilege here just for being white, if you're an immigrant you're kind of all in the same boat together. I don't know if there's a difference for people who were born here who are white or non white.

I know Canada always talks about diversity... it's just that I haven't experienced much acceptance of my heritage as a child and I've seen other immigrant families, so yes there's much "positive talk about diversity" but it's not always actually encouraged. It's still more popular to be like everyone else.

Edited June 3, 2015 by MarysLittleFlower

[MarysLittleFlower]

I don't want my above post to sound bitter... of course there are always people who look at you as a person, not a member of "this social group". I just had a bit of a rough childhood being from another country and that has stayed with me. I don't hate living in Canada or anything. I just don't think immigration is as valued here as it seems to be talked about - I mean there are many immigrants who contribute to the economy and everything, but mostly working at low paying labour jobs - even if they have advanced university degrees. (the stereotype of the taxi driver with a PhD is kind of true). Maybe if someone is not white it just emphasized that more for them. But also if they have an accent, etc. People would still treat you the same generally, it's not like Canadians are generally prejudiced, people would be nice to you - but you wouldn't really have the same opportunity perhaps if you came here as an adult. If you came as a child, you can still get an education thankfully

Edited June 3, 2015 by MarysLittleFlower

[hotpink]

I think another poster touched upon the issue by describing how a regular "white man" wouldn't survive transported to a getto. 

Much of the issue, I think, is surrounded in books like "stuff white people do".  It's actually not a commentary on white people but on the middle class status quo in general.

Much of our society is driven by what is considered ok in anglicized culture.  Easy to pronounce names, westernized clothing, and "flat" english speech.   We have done little to change that.  There's no reason that other neat cultural dress shouldn't be included, but let's be real, we can't even accept a lady with a headscarf working at at a retail store without a national law suit.  I encourage my students to use neat, cultural dress if they prefer it over anglicized dress.  A neat sari or kimono is beautiful.  Corn rows are really pretty, and can be stunning on women (talk about jaw dropping) when they are in a pattern.  Braided hair on men (not ratty hippie dreadlocks) can be really great looking, too, when they look washed and clean.  But even then we still have heavy western influence...the whole shaving thing...men are now expected to not have chest hair showing so shaving around the neckline is needed....its an 'are you kidding me' moment.  Women have to shave all sorts of uncomfortable things.  And then we get into body shape.  It's terifficly difficult for large men to find clothing, nevermind dress clothing.  One can get a walmart suit for the average white male or white female.  But all black men (who are larger) or asian women (who are smaller) may be completely closed out...while only some random white people are affected.  Heck, ever think of the bandaid conundrum.  A black person has to slap on a bandaid several shades lighter than their skin.  And *poof* back to being unprofessional and really obvious.  There are many "white" races to which bandaids appear dark on...but the're really not that far off.

So there is a benefit (call it privilege or advantage, that's just splitting hairs) to being white in America.  The upward mobility is easier, from culture to dress to speech. 

That's not to say it's easy, or that poverty isn't stifling.  It's not to say that we don't treat all immigrants badly, often we do, even white ones.  Heck, we often treat poor americans badly.  But right now there still are things that make white people's lives a bit easier and that, at the end of the day, can make or break the frustration on the road to sucess.

[Peace]

Pretty interesting thread. Being among the majority or the powerful in a population comes with advantages. There is definitely a privilege that comes along with being a man that I imagine most women would instantly recognize. But being a man myself I am hardly cognizant of the privilege that gives me on a day to day basis. In the USA there is a privilege that comes along with whiteness. Is that a universal privilege? Does it hold true for a white person walking the streets of Rwanda? I have my doubts about that. A white person living in Japan would not have an advantage (overall) as compared to a Japanese person living in Japan (all other things considered). But due to various historical reasons there does seem to be a privilege that comes along with being white in the USA. With changing demographics, how long that will be the case, and to what extent, remains to be seen. I think that wealth is much more of a factor in life-outcome than race at this point.

 

As a group, Asians tend to succeed more economically and academically than either blacks or whites, yet no one babbles or whines about "Asian Privilege" in America.  And Asians have certainly faced their shared of bigotry and injustice here historically, and many came with nothing, and were able to achieve much.  

The so-called model-minority myth. You might want to take a look at a book called Yellow by Frank Wu, Dean of UC Hastings Law School. Among other things, you have a heavy selection factor among Asian Americans because of immigration policy. Most Asians are also concentrated heavily in states that have income levels that are higher than other states. One might also argue given the superiority that Asian Americans have demonstrated in academic achievement, they should be much better off than they are (I believe that Asian Americans still trail whites when it comes to wealth (which matters more than income). And how many Asian American CEO's or high ranking officials do you see? There is a very real glass ceiling that they face, I think).

[Benedictus]

There are loads of different types of advantages and disadvantages for the varied contexts. It's a fact of life and diversity but it can become insiduous and nasty in varying ways over time. It depends on the culture and society but all minority groups suffer some disadvantages because of a majority privilage of some sort. If a white and black person travel to Japan or South Korea they'll soon see they don't have privilage there as the system will sometimes work openly against them. The same applies to other people in different places and contexts. It can and should be challenged, but it's not easy to do and people sometimes aren't open to listen and change. They just see you as a trouble maker instead, because it's easier than thinking yourself as bad somehow.

[Era Might]

Pretty interesting thread. Being among the majority or the powerful in a population comes with advantages. There is definitely a privilege that comes along with being a man that I imagine most women would instantly recognize. But being a man myself I am hardly cognizant of the privilege that gives me on a day to day basis. In the USA there is a privilege that comes along with whiteness. Is that a universal privilege? Does it hold true for a white person walking the streets of Rwanda? I have my doubts about that. A white person living in Japan would not have an advantage (overall) as compared to a Japanese person living in Japan (all other things considered). But due to various historical reasons there does seem to be a privilege that comes along with being white in the USA. With changing demographics, how long that will be the case, and to what extent, remains to be seen. I think that wealth is much more of a factor in life-outcome than race at this point.

 

The so-called model-minority myth. You might want to take a look at a book called Yellow by Frank Wu, Dean of UC Hastings Law School. Among other things, you have a heavy selection factor among Asian Americans because of immigration policy. Most Asians are also concentrated heavily in states that have income levels that are higher than other states. One might also argue given the superiority that Asian Americans have demonstrated in academic achievement, they should be much better off than they are (I believe that Asian Americans still trail whites when it comes to wealth (which matters more than income). And how many Asian American CEO's or high ranking officials do you see? There is a very real glass ceiling that they face, I think).

​Part of dealing with this issue of "white privilege" (or social privilege in any context) is eliminating this idea of success. Just because a person or a group succeeds in a system does not mean anything except that they have somehow managed to adapt to that system...that doesn't mean the system is good, or useful, or ideal. In American society, we have a system that puts people through a gradual system of schooling, 1st to 12th grade, then a college system, then a work system, etc. We assume that rising in the system = a person is good, or successful, because they have internalized the system and adapted to it. I look at it differently, I look for those who CANNOT adapt to the system, because people generally want what is good for them, and if the system does not suit them, then one of them needs to give way, and I am always on the side of the person, never the system. I measure a society by its dropouts, not its achievers. In America we tend to speak of freedom as a vacuum, as in, "You are free to do whatever you want, become whatever you want, etc." But that is not an ideal society IMO...it is an ideal society for individualism and capitalism, but it is not an ideal for how human nature works. People need a context in which they live, the "life yourself up by your bootstraps" philosophy, the self-made man, is just as ideological as the dictatorship of the proletariat or the divinity of the emperor. And that health and wealth Gospel is part of "white privilege"...when outsider-whites like the Irish or Italians came to America, they were different...they had to assimilate to that "whiteness" which is not merely about skin color. To be "white" is to be a master race in many ways, not in the sense the Nazis took it, but in the sense that the white man is identified with modernity and modern progress, and non-whites are identified with backwardness. That's part of the racial perception in America, blacks live in ghettos, Mexicans are overrunning our borders like barbarians, while the American white man is innocent, just minding his business (literally). Who can argue with the white man when he is the standard of modernity?

[Era Might]

There are loads of different types of advantages and disadvantages for the varied contexts. It's a fact of life and diversity but it can become insiduous and nasty in varying ways over time. It depends on the culture and society but all minority groups suffer some disadvantages because of a majority privilage of some sort. If a white and black person travel to Japan or South Korea they'll soon see they don't have privilage there as the system will sometimes work openly against them. The same applies to other people in different places and contexts. It can and should be challenged, but it's not easy to do and people sometimes aren't open to listen and change. They just see you as a trouble maker instead, because it's easier than thinking yourself as bad somehow.

​Ironically white privilege can be even stronger in another country, because as I said in my last post, the white man is identified with modernity, and the American white man with the greatest achievement of modernity. When a white man shows up, it can mean schooling, medicine, etc. But that's part of the ideology of whiteness, "developing" backwards peoples, although we look at it as "helping" them. Eventually, it means bombing them into accepting our help, because why would anyone refuse our help? We're obviously the master race.

[Benedictus]

​Ironically white privilege can be even stronger in another country, because as I said in my last post, the white man is identified with modernity, and the American white man with the greatest achievement of modernity. When a white man shows up, it can mean schooling, medicine, etc. But that's part of the ideology of whiteness, "developing" backwards peoples, although we look at it as "helping" them. Eventually, it means bombing them into accepting our help, because why would anyone refuse our help? We're obviously the master race.

​That would be more true of a developing country. Although, developed countries should help less developed countries there is the risk wealth and resources are used to oppress a nation and its culture in the name of progressing 'backward' peoples. Development can be done in different ways, via imperialism or with heavy strings attached but also in more empowering ways. But where the partnership is less than equal it's always the person with advantage who has the power. The harder issue is how to provide solidarity, help and cooperation without creating problems. Some academics/theories are good at finding fault but not finding practical solutions to daily problems.

However, in terms of countries like Japan and South Korea I wouldn't say whites have these advantages, at least not so much. Americans, maybe even less so. There is overt racism and nationalism there on many levels. However, how countries such as those are impacted by the 'whiteness' of capitalist corporates is maybe something to consider, although Japan brought out the US corporates in good measure too. But trade developments by countries, such as BRIC, challenge the staus quo as they bypass reliance on US and EU trade bases. Are Russia and China a good development partner? I'd say in terms of freedom and politics, no. But then the 'free world' can't criticise because they do trade deals with countries with terrible track records on human rights to make a few dollars profit.

[Era Might]

​That would be more true of a developing country. Although, developed countries should help less developed countries there is the risk wealth and resources are used to oppress a nation and its culture in the name of progressing 'backward' peoples. Development can be done in different ways, via imperialism or with heavy strings attached but also in more empowering ways. But where the partnership is less than equal it's always the person with advantage who has the power. The harder issue is how to provide solidarity, help and cooperation without creating problems. Some academics/theories are good at finding fault but not finding practical solutions to daily problems.

However, in terms of countries like Japan and South Korea I wouldn't say whites have these advantages, at least not so much. Americans, maybe even less so. There is overt racism and nationalism there on many levels. However, how countries such as those are impacted by the 'whiteness' of capitalist corporates is maybe something to consider, although Japan brought out the US corporates in good measure too. But trade developments by countries, such as BRIC, challenge the staus quo as they bypass reliance on US and EU trade bases. Are Russia and China a good development partner? I'd say in terms of freedom and politics, no. But then the 'free world' can't criticise because they do trade deals with countries with terrible track records on human rights to make a few dollars profit.

​I would say to always question assumptions. For example, that phrase you use, "finding practical solutions to daily problems." Who determines that something is a problem? The idea of a "problem" and a "challenge" is very much a modern preoccupation, we are a society with a solution in search of a problem. Things are only problems when you have some pre-determined end or standard that you are trying to align. Imagine, for example, if we turned death into a problem, and started a "War on Death" the way we have a "War on Poverty." You can easily imagine the results...we already have done this, I guess, in making an idol out of life, abandoning the art of suffering for technical solutions to "problems" through institutionalized healthcare, etc. And then we export these "solutions" to other countries because we assume that if people are having "problems," then we have the solution...how convenient!

I like that word "solidarity" but I think it can only be approached/realized when one is willing to NOT identify problems OR solutions. Nature takes care of its own.

Edited June 4, 2015 by Era Might

[FutureLilSister]

Is this idea anything more than a hoax to make people feel better or worse about themselves?

​Hoax? Not to be rude but have you been to America? Of course not all white people are privileged or benefit from white privilege but many do. Accepting it is half the battle and using your privilege to level the playing field is the second.

[Didacus]

Race is far more a question of state of mind than it is a skin color.

[hotpink]

Race is far more a question of state of mind than it is a skin color.

​Not really.  "State of mind" dosn't fix many of the things that I questiond about earlier.  It dosn't fix the fact that bandaids look ludicrous on black skin, or that becuase of their size asin woman are often forced to shop in the juniors or even children's sections.  It dosn't change the fact that modern makeup still tends to encourage black women to look lighter-skinned or that hair care is still almost universally geared for the straigh-haired white person who's hair gets oily overnight.

Now, you can say these things don't matter beucase you've never faced a world where finding clothing, medical, hair care and skin care products is difficult.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

Is this idea anything more than a hoax to make people feel better or worse about themselves?

​The free mason illumanati is very pro white and started in europe from the excommunication of the knights of the templar. And yes U.S culture has been dominated by free mason idealogy to varying degrees since its roots and more so in the previous hundred years till today and also to verying degrees has great influence on the other new west nations of canada,australia,south africa and new zealand and has actually begun in the last 20 or so years to get a foot hold in europe including the U.K. Unsure why it took off in the U.S.A and not it's european root countries but anyhow, believe it or not.

Edited June 5, 2015 by Tab'le De'Bah-Rye
missed a nation,south africa

[Socrates]

White Privilege and bigotry Evil Racist Capitalist/Imperialist Amerikkka against anyone not white, or with "ethnic-sounding" names, is so overwhelming and pervasive that a black (or half-black) guy with a name like "Barack Hussein Obama" could never get elected dog-catcher, much less to high political office.

We urgently need more government activism to fix this huge problem.   

 

. . . Oh, wait,

[Era Might]

White Privilege and bigotry Evil Racist Capitalist/Imperialist Amerikkka against anyone not white, or with "ethnic-sounding" names, is so overwhelming and pervasive that a black (or half-black) guy with a name like "Barack Hussein Obama" could never get elected dog-catcher, much less to high political office.

We urgently need more government activism to fix this huge problem.   

 

. . . Oh, wait,

​By that logic, there is no anti-Christian animus in society since the nation always elects Christians to the presidency.