Confidential meeting seeks to sway-synod to accept same-sex unions

[puellapaschalis]

​Interesting. Maybe some of them moved to Belgium. In recent years their Bishops seem to want to take the mantle from Holland Although, I doubt that changes the decline in Holland though? My understanding is the bishops there have made it clear many parishes will need to close regardless of the the leadership in place.

​The rot in the Belgian, specifically Flemish hierarchy has been largely parallel to that of the Netherlands, shifted only by perhaps a couple of decades.

I think it would be fair to say the Dutch church is in a remnant-type situation.

[puellapaschalis]

​Interesting. Maybe some of them moved to Belgium. In recent years their Bishops seem to want to take the mantle from Holland Although, I doubt that changes the decline in Holland though? My understanding is the bishops there have made it clear many parishes will need to close regardless of the the leadership in place.

​The rot in the Belgian, specifically Flemish hierarchy has been largely parallel to that of the Netherlands, shifted only by perhaps a couple of decades.

I think it would be fair to say the Dutch church is in a remnant-type situation.

[Didacus]

​Pope Saint John Paul II said we are entering into the final confrontation. Given Pope Benedict's words saying that many things must yet still occur, we can safely assume we have at the very least several centuries of this final confrontation to endure. This is all guessing, of course, but it's a safe assumption given what our previous Holy Father told us.

​I miss the papa, ever so much.  But knowing much of his mind, although not completely of course, but knowing his opinion of seeing human history in terms of generations rather than years, the John-Paul the Great would say we are in the final confrontation does not surprise me.  I would believe sooner than the understanding to which you are alluding to towards the final confrontation and his own are quite different.

Papa Ben is quite the giant in his own respect, but if I understanding at all I would think his main purpose was the same as Christ Hi,self; we shouldn't worry about the end point blank and stop asking.

 

How would it be that anyone, even saintly men, would come to know with certainty what the Son did not know Himself and affirmed was reserved as knowledge belonging to the Father and to the Father alone??  The papas are far better than this...  there is a finer meaning in their words than a time or a place.

 

John-Paul the Great...  if I could only be so worthy to dwell in as much as his shadow.  May God always keep him close, may God forever keep him holy and near to us.

[Norseman82]

Before the end of the world, certainly several centuries. Before the major chastisement at least a century, probably longer.

​

Perhaps centuries, perhaps not. It is taught in both Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition that there will be a great abandonment of the Faith and wide acceptance of strange lusts and perversions.  The abandonment of the Faith and the acceptance of grave sins has certainly escalated quickly just in the pass 10 years. 

​

According to the substantial corpus of approved Catholic eschatological prophecy, there are several major conditions that will be met before the beginning of the chastisement.

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​Well Eschatology in the Church is the doctrine of the Last Things and it is built upon Sacred Scripture. Private revelations often complement it.

​

Inherently, yes. But these private revelations are formally approved, there are very many of them, and even across very vast cultural, linguistic, and temporal contexts they tend to be in remarkably close agreement with each other. That is why those approved eschatological prophecies, when read in the light of Revelation, are worth taking seriously.

​Be careful, guys, lest you begin to sound like some of the non-Catholic TV preachers.

[KnightofChrist]

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​Be careful, guys, lest you begin to sound like some of the non-Catholic TV preachers.

​No need to make insults.

[Nihil Obstat]

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​Be careful, guys, lest you begin to sound like some of the non-Catholic TV preachers.

Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with the Catholic traditions of eschatology. 

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​No need to make insults.

​Indeed.

[Norseman82]

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​

​No need to make insults.

​It's not an insult, just a cautionary note.  Some TV preachers start making timelines and start trying to assign dates to events.

And yes, I do know of the generalities that you spoke of and do see some of them in today's society.

[Benedictus]

​It's not an insult, just a cautionary note.  Some TV preachers start making timelines and start trying to assign dates to events.

And yes, I do know of the generalities that you spoke of and do see some of them in today's society.

​The problem also is that all those generalities have been seen before and under worse conditions. Why is now so special?

[KnightofChrist]

I admit the Church has faced all the heresies and errors she is facing today before. But in the past she did not face them all at once like today. Has the acceptance of certain sins that cry out to heaven been so widely approved by nations that were once Christian? Have so many nations that were Christian fallen away from the Faith in so great numbers? This year alone man has slaughtered 18,000,000 and counting of it's unborn children worldwide, yearly that number is 42 million! When in history has that happened? Such numbers of dead children would be unimaginable in history.

We know not the day, nor the hour but with such numbers it is hard not to believe our time is "special" or set apart from other times in history.

 

Edited June 6, 2015 by KnightofChrist

[KnightofChrist]

​It's not an insult, just a cautionary note.  Some TV preachers start making timelines and start trying to assign dates to events.

And yes, I do know of the generalities that you spoke of and do see some of them in today's society.

​Ok I'll accept that you meant no insult. But I did attempt to set no date. I merely pointed out current events do seem very similar to those that will happen towards the end of the age and that our time is set apart from other times in history.

Edited June 6, 2015 by KnightofChrist

[Didacus]

I admit the Church has faced all the heresies and errors she is facing today before. But in the past she did not face them all at once like today. Has the acceptance of certain sins that cry out to heaven been so widely approved by nations that were once Christian? Have so many nations that were Christian fallen away from the Faith in so great numbers? This year alone man has slaughtered 18,000,000 and counting of it's unborn children worldwide, yearly that number is 42 million! When in history has that happened? Such numbers of dead children would be unimaginable in history.

We know not the day, nor the hour but with such numbers it is hard not to believe our time is "special" or set apart from other times in history.

 

​God doesn't play dice with numbers.  1, 15 or 20 million is inconsequential; why cries to Heaven is heard by Heaven.

The scale has changed, the severity has not.  For all intent and purpose, still nothing new under the sun.

 

Even internet, technology and all that 'good modern' stuff is no game changer to God, sin and the likes.  At most, these things are simply catalysts, but overall, everything remains the same.  The story is repeating itself.  Generations have the same choices as before, with the same opportunity to salvation as ever before - as John-Paul the Great once expressed.  Human history and experience is not so much a linear trajectory but more so a generational struggle ever unbroken (I.E. there is no real destination for humanity and its history, but more an on-going journey both communal and personal).  John-Paul the Great's vision of the world as such remains to this day revolutionary and far ahead of its time.

 

Let us not give in to scandal, but remain firm in our faith.  The end belongs to the Lord, and no one else.

[Nihil Obstat]

Scripture clearly attests to some ages, some nations being more ungodly, iniquitous, or evil than others. I think it is perfectly reasonable to think that we live in a particularly evil age, and most of us in one of the most indolent and offensive nations ever to have arisen. There will be retribution for the evils of our time; God is not mocked. Time will tell whether or not we see it during our time on earth.

[Norseman82]

​Ok I'll accept that you meant no insult. But I did attempt to set no date. I merely pointed out current events do seem very similar to those that will happen towards the end of the age and that our time is set apart from other times in history.

 

Understood.  But I think the "bottom line" is that we need to be ready for anything - I could die in an accident on my way to Mass this weekend for all I know.

Besides, there is still a chance for humanity to repent.

Edited June 6, 2015 by Norseman82

[Didacus]

Scripture clearly attests to some ages, some nations being more ungodly, iniquitous, or evil than others. I think it is perfectly reasonable to think that we live in a particularly evil age, and most of us in one of the most indolent and offensive nations ever to have arisen. There will be retribution for the evils of our time; God is not mocked. Time will tell whether or not we see it during our time on earth.

​Vanity... Vanity... Vanity... all these things are but vanity.

 

God is not mocked, not has He ever been.

Retribution will come as retribution has passed.

Iniquity persists as iniquity has always been.

 

Nothing measured of consequence from then till now.  Nothing new under the sun.

It is but vanity to believe that we are in any way more challenged, or more enlightened, than those who have come before us.

[Nihil Obstat]

​Vanity... Vanity... Vanity... all these things are but vanity.

 

God is not mocked, not has He ever been.

Retribution will come as retribution has passed.

Iniquity persists as iniquity has always been.

 

Nothing measured of consequence from then till now.  Nothing new under the sun.

It is but vanity to believe that we are in any way more challenged, or more enlightened, than those who have come before us.

It would he vanity to think we are special in any way. Not to think that we as a worldwide society are experiencing a particularly ungodly age. As I said, Scripture (and indeed also the saints) clearly attest to such particularly wicked ages and nations.