Duggar scandal

[Guest]

So non Catholic couples shouldn't be able to adopt? Are you serious?

Edited May 28, 2015 by Guest

[Nihil Obstat]

​What would be an emergency situation? Would it be better to keep a child cycling through a foster system on the much elongated waiting list if these groups of people are excluded? Or is it better to place them with a family even if it is not a 1950s leave it to beaver traditional family?

When I say emergency situations I am assuming there may be times where a child needs to be moved immediately for his own safety. Something requiring very immediate action. I am not familiar with how things are typically done.

So non Catholic couples shouldn't be able to adopt? Are you serious?

If Catholic couples who are trustworthy are available, sure. Otherwise you deny that child the chance to be raised in the one true faith. But in many cases there simply are not good Catholics available, I am sure. In which case the next preference would probably be a heterosexual non Catholic couple.

[hotpink]

I am sad for the Duggars on multiple levels, no one had the right to call them out on this issue. All this did to this family was have them relive the pain and suffering they already went through.

​ No one has the right to call them out?  Hello?  They put several girls...very young girls... who'd been recently molested on national television and expected that everything would always be fine and dandy.  When the oldest boy was 14 the girls in the house were 11, 10, 9, 8,  and 2.  We can infer that with 4 victims that the four oldest were the ones affected. Less than 2 years after this these girls became a national spectacle.  Is it that judgemental to call that bad parenting?

[superblue]

​ No one has the right to call them out?  Hello?  They put several girls...very young girls... who'd been recently molested on national television and expected that everything would always be fine and dandy.  When the oldest boy was 14 the girls in the house were 11, 10, 9, 8,  and 2.  We can infer that with 4 victims that the four oldest were the ones affected. Less than 2 years after this these girls became a national spectacle.  Is it that judgemental to call that bad parenting?

​ the viewing audience is not the police or the moral judges of these people, the Duggars do not need the publics blessings on anything that they do nor do they need our judgement it is their lives to live. This doesn't require a cabinet meeting in the congress nor anything else.

The parties involved handled the situation, this isn't some cult we are watching on tv who in turn seduces people to join and then they participate in some worshiping of an idol on an alter in their secret basement and then in turn goes out on the hunt for people.

But they did get caught up in the lime light, they should have been smarter to know that this part of their past would eventually catch up with them.  If this was some public institution we were watching on TV that was some how serving youth in some fashion, then sure bash em all over the place, Penn State took a public whipping and they deserved it , different media, but a public institution and their sports televised and read about often.

At best all anyone can do at this point in time is pray for them.

 

If people want to gossip i suppose that is fun to vent and quarrel on line over it, but it isn't helping the Duggars any, less some how we reduce the family to just being entertainment and forget or ignore altogether that they are people.

[PhuturePriest]

​ No one has the right to call them out?  Hello?  They put several girls...very young girls... who'd been recently molested on national television and expected that everything would always be fine and dandy.  When the oldest boy was 14 the girls in the house were 11, 10, 9, 8,  and 2.  We can infer that with 4 victims that the four oldest were the ones affected. Less than 2 years after this these girls became a national spectacle.  Is it that judgemental to call that bad parenting?

​I can only speak for myself, but having been in a similar situation (and coincidentally, it now being two years since it happened), I am doing perfectly well. I'm not struggling with anything whatsoever concerning it, and I'm perfectly healthy like everyone else. 

People act like if you're sexually abused you're mentally scarred and crying in a corner for ten years, when the fact is, you do get over it and heal. 

Now, what would set me back to the beginning is if I were forced to relive the experience in my mind by means of it becoming national news, which is my main objection to whoever revealed this.

[hotpink]

​ the viewing audience is not the police or the moral judges of these people, the Duggars do not need the publics blessings on anything that they do nor do they need our judgement it is their lives to live. This doesn't require a cabinet meeting in the congress nor anything else.

The parties involved handled the situation, this isn't some cult we are watching on tv who in turn seduces people to join and then they participate in some worshiping of an idol on an alter in their secret basement and then in turn goes out on the hunt for people.

But they did get caught up in the lime light, they should have been smarter to know that this part of their past would eventually catch up with them.  If this was some public institution we were watching on TV that was some how serving youth in some fashion, then sure bash em all over the place, Penn State took a public whipping and they deserved it , different media, but a public institution and their sports televised and read about often.

At best all anyone can do at this point in time is pray for them.

 

If people want to gossip i suppose that is fun to vent and quarrel on line over it, but it isn't helping the Duggars any, less some how we reduce the family to just being entertainment and forget or ignore altogether that they are people.

Actually, I disagree.  The viewing audience SHOULD morally poliece the content their viewing.  We'd be alot better if we did that.  Considering the allegations against the dad from 7th heaven and Bill Cosby, I think we'd all be a bit more careful in our viewing habits.

Actually, it was far worse.  The girls were exploited by their own parents.  This is not some creepster in a dungeon that they chose.  Their parents forced them to be "actors" in a happy family when they were dealing with abuse.  Thats horrid.

At this point it's not about gossip.  It should be a big warning.  If you have children who are molested (no matter who the molester) and you place them on television you SHOULD be made to pay for it.  You should be treated as a somewhat dangerous person, willing to place your children's well being on the alter of fame.

The parents should be shamed into anonomity

The Duggars were adimant that they did this show to show that big families worked and that the quiverfull movement was great.  They did this knowingly and willingly at the expense of their daughters.  In non-personhood it should be treated as something that is a warning sign.  Don't put children on the air when they are dealing with trauma.

[PhuturePriest]

Actually, I disagree.  The viewing audience SHOULD morally poliece the content their viewing.  We'd be alot better if we did that.  Considering the allegations against the dad from 7th heaven and Bill Cosby, I think we'd all be a bit more careful in our viewing habits.

Actually, it was far worse.  The girls were exploited by their own parents.  This is not some creepster in a dungeon that they chose.  Their parents forced them to be "actors" in a happy family when they were dealing with abuse.  Thats horrid.

At this point it's not about gossip.  It should be a big warning.  If you have children who are molested (no matter who the molester) and you place them on television you SHOULD be made to pay for it.  You should be treated as a somewhat dangerous person, willing to place your children's well being on the alter of fame.

The parents should be shamed into anonomity

The Duggars were adimant that they did this show to show that big families worked and that the quiverfull movement was great.  They did this knowingly and willingly at the expense of their daughters.  In non-personhood it should be treated as something that is a warning sign.  Don't put children on the air when they are dealing with trauma.

​But what if they weren't dealing with trauma at the time? Did you read my above post? It seems like we're assuming that they're perpetually broken, or that they were at the very least still dealing with intense trauma, when in fact the possibility could be that their parents asked and made sure that they were okay with everything, and that they were in a healthy place in order to do the show. We're assuming a lot of variables that we simply do not know, and I don't think that's charitable or just. 

[hotpink]

​I can only speak for myself, but having been in a similar situation (and coincidentally, it now being two years since it happened), I am doing perfectly well. I'm not struggling with anything whatsoever concerning it, and I'm perfectly healthy like everyone else. 

People act like if you're sexually abused you're mentally scarred and crying in a corner for ten years, when the fact is, you do get over it and heal. 

Now, what would set me back to the beginning is if I were forced to relive the experience in my mind by means of it becoming national news, which is my main objection to whoever revealed this.

​You never ever have bad days, ever?

 

Really?

 

I never said they were broken up crying all the time.  I said that given the circumstances it's a bad idea.  And I stick with it.  Your feelings are you, but you also had anonymity in general...they did not.  They also had no internet (like I assume you had) and very little communication with the outside world.   They were responsible not only for themselves but one (or two) little siblings. They had alot on them. That's a big difference.

Edited May 28, 2015 by hotpink

[hotpink]

​But what if they weren't dealing with trauma at the time? Did you read my above post? It seems like we're assuming that they're perpetually broken, or that they were at the very least still dealing with intense trauma, when in fact the possibility could be that their parents asked and made sure that they were okay with everything, and that they were in a healthy place in order to do the show. We're assuming a lot of variables that we simply do not know, and I don't think that's charitable or just. 

​I never said intense or that they were perpetualy broken.  But they had 5 damaged kids, 4 of them victims.  Thats a fact.  Trauma dosn't just dissapear especally as puberty hits.  They could of been fine, but they also went down a rabbit hole of fame that they couldn't get out of if things weren't fine.

[franciscanheart]

​Im personally not really convinced of the whole traditional family set up having that much of an impact on the child's psyche. Relationships and how we define them is ever evolving and changing. What we thought of as the ideal childhood situation a century ago or a millennial ago may not be the same now. I havent done a ton of research into the topic, but I am more of the mind that a healthy environment with supportive, loving adults (Regardless of the occupants gender, sexual identity, marital status) is the best thing for a child. I mean, we used to think that biracial marriages were the terrible too. Turns out a child can be raised by two people from different ethnic backgrounds and still be normal.

 AMEN to that last part. I come from a biracial family and it was still frowned upon when I was growing up.

​

So non Catholic couples shouldn't be able to adopt? Are you serious?

If you ask the good people of phatmass, YES. Catholics are always preferred over other people, simply because they claim to be Catholic. Always.

I know: it boggles my mind a bit, too.

​

​I can only speak for myself, but having been in a similar situation (and coincidentally, it now being two years since it happened), I am doing perfectly well. I'm not struggling with anything whatsoever concerning it, and I'm perfectly healthy like everyone else. 

People act like if you're sexually abused you're mentally scarred and crying in a corner for ten years, when the fact is, you do get over it and heal. 

Now, what would set me back to the beginning is if I were forced to relive the experience in my mind by means of it becoming national news, which is my main objection to whoever revealed this.

​You can't take your experience and decide that it's the rule. It's not. Even putting aside the details of your situation, your situation is not the hard and fast rule on abuse.

[PhuturePriest]

​You never ever have bad days, ever?

 

Really?

 

I never said they were broken up crying all the time.  I said that given the circumstances it's a bad idea.  And I stick with it.  Your feelings are you, but you also had anonymity in general...they did not.  They also had no internet (like I assume you had) and very little communication with the outside world.  That's a big difference.

​I had a bad day when all of this was revealed and the entire weekend was dedicated to talking about it by the media, but other than that, I can honestly say I've never had a bad day aside from that, and keep in mind I see the person who did it on a regular basis, as I chose not to press charges. 

They had anonymity during when it happened and for two years after, which, at least in my experience, the worst time I had was when it happened and the few months after. After that I was perfectly fine, and that was with having possibly the worst therapist on the planet who, thanks be to God, is now retired.

[PhuturePriest]

 

 ​You can't take your experience and decide that it's the rule. It's not. Even putting aside the details of your situation, your situation is not the hard and fast rule on abuse.

​But you can't assume that my experience was not theirs. We have no clue what their experience was and how they healed. It is only fair to assume that Jim Bob and Michelle consulted their daughters first to make sure that they were in a healthy position to do the show. It's uncharitable to simply assume that they took the offer without speaking to their kids first, as the kids are essentially the point of the show. 

[hotpink]

​But you can't assume that my experience was not theirs. We have no clue what their experience was and how they healed. It is only fair to assume that Jim Bob and Michelle consulted their daughters first to make sure that they were in a healthy position to do the show. It's uncharitable to simply assume that they took the offer without speaking to their kids first, as the kids are essentially the point of the show. 

​Look, I see this is a boundry that shouldn't be crossed.  Even if kids are in a "healthy place" it dosn't mean they will stay there. 

I did more research.

And there's plenty floating round on the internet...like on Free Jinger to (see second to last post on this page) http://www.freejinger.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=87&t=26169&start=540 from 2007 to show that they didn't have anyone's best interest at heart.  Keep reading the thread adn you'll see that they also made the 8yo girl confess masturbation.  Yeah......twisted.

[PhuturePriest]

​Look, I see this is a boundry that shouldn't be crossed.  Even if kids are in a "healthy place" it dosn't mean they will stay there. 

I did more research.

And there's plenty floating round on the internet...like on Free Jinger to (see second to last post on this page) http://www.freejinger.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=87&t=26169&start=540 from 2007 to show that they didn't have anyone's best interest at heart.  Keep reading the thread adn you'll see that they also made the 8yo girl confess masturbation.  Yeah......twisted.

The question is, rather, where these anonymous people on the internet got all of this information. I still hold to innocent until proven guilty, and I definitely hold that you should take anything from the internet with a grain of salt. It is only fair and right to not lay blame and condemnation upon the Duggars unless these accusations are eventually proven correct. 

Too many people are ready to burn the Duggars at the stake because of this or that. The Romans weren't idiots when they thought it a good idea to instate the "innocent until proven guilty" rule.

[CrossCuT]

​But what if they weren't dealing with trauma at the time? Did you read my above post? It seems like we're assuming that they're perpetually broken, or that they were at the very least still dealing with intense trauma, when in fact the possibility could be that their parents asked and made sure that they were okay with everything, and that they were in a healthy place in order to do the show. We're assuming a lot of variables that we simply do not know, and I don't think that's charitable or just. 

​Its far better to assume the worst in this situation and guard them from future scandal or public duress than assume things are hunky dory...and for what purpose? For a tv show?