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Dogma!


FilmGuy127

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The reason this is acceptiona;;y funny to me is that I can relate to it on a personal level...Dont twist my words here. Let me explain. I am very passionate about my Catholic faith, so if I see that presented in a comedic way, if it is not intended to do harm, I find it super funny. Like when you watch a roast on comedy central or something of that nature. Not everything said about the individual is accurate or true, and the person getting roasted knows that, as does the audience. That is what makes it more funny to me than say Ace Ventura or the three stooges. I can relate, it's like my faith getting roasted, but it's all in comedic fun.


-Kiel

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OwNeD_byGoD

hi kiel,

i see where you are coming from, i understand that it is like if a youth group were making a skit of the catholic church and having the theme as a parody, i understand however this movie isnt just a little joke, it is blown out of proportion and like i stated above, it saddens me to see that we support things that take "comedy" to the level of hindering weaker catholic's faith

Edited by OwNeD_byGoD
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This whole hindering weaker Catholics faith is a valid argument, but I dont buy into it fully. Where do we draw the line. The statment at the biggining of the movie explains it is pure fiction and for comedic expression. You start off laughing with the platypus line. I realize weaker Catholics can get turned away by this movie, but that will not make me condemn it or stop watching it. Weaker Catholics leave the church every day due to a couple of out of context scripture verses by an anti-Catholic, or die hard protestant...weaker Catholics leave the church because of the publicised sex scandals. If someone is not gonna embrace their faith, and can allow a pure fiction movie, intended to make people laugh sway their personal beliefs, I ask what personal beliefs did they have in the first place. Nothing they researched on their own, they prolly just believe what anyone tells them. They are Catholic cause there parents were, or someone said it was the true church, then they see a movie or talk to a protestant who disagree, and all of the sudden they are believing something else????Doesn't seem like they had a belief in the firstplace, just an impriont of an impression someone else made on them. Sorry if that came off harsh...I'm bitter about a test I have to study for LOL.... I love everyone here, and Dogma, and my bulldog Mollie.

-Kiel aka Moses the Black (check the avitar!)

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crusader1234

Hey, its been a while since I have posted in this thread and there are a lot of good comments, just a few I'd like to talk about:

As for making a Holocaust Comedy, thats a bit different. First of all, the subject matter is much more tender because it is so recent and so many people were murdered, rather than insulted. Also, Dogma was made by a Catholic, and you are not a Jew. The movie was not saying Ha Ha Catholics! Take a Joke! It was a Catholic taking a funny look at some parts of the faith he didn't fully understand.

Now I know some parts are insulting, but sometimes people need to learn to laugh at themselves. I know some priests who found this funny. I said 'Dont you think it totally misrepresents us' and he said 'Well yeah but its a comedy, its not trying to pretend its a Gospel or anything.' Which I totally agree with.

If you dont want to laugh at yourself or your faith, then don't go see this movie. As far as it hindering weaker Catholic's faith, it made me question my faith and go figure out what it was that Catholics believe, and sure enough, I agreed with the Church doctrine so this movie really only made me stronger.

But again, if you dont want to see it, dont see it, just dont pretend like its the devil.

Peace,

Rich

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Pretend its the devil: hahahaha You are to funny.

On a side note you are correct that this movie can also cause a weaker Catholic to search for truth about hteir faith, and that is a good thing. In the end jsut go with your conscience on this one. Mine says watch it again and laugh. I think I will!

-Kiel

ps this board and the Musik lounge need more life in them...Im trying, but sometimes Nobody posts on a topic for like 3 days?????

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[quote name='DemonSlayer' date='Jun 17 2004, 06:19 AM'] It was just too blasphemous, I couldn't watch anymore of it half way through. [/quote]
The thing with Dogma is that if you don't watch the whole thing you can't understand the first part. It's like an episode of South Park, there is a message, but you have to watch the "off-color" parts first. I bet if people watched the last five or ten minutes of the movie they would be a bit confused, but they wouldn't agree with what was said. Try it out.

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Hi Kiel,

I realize that the movie was only made in jest, but still. There is a line between comedy and blasphemy, and I think it was crossed in this movie. Humor can be used in strange ways, and even though Smith claims this movie was made in good fun, many portrayals in the movie were pretty darn irreverant. Why would someone want to make a movie that, while funny, completely misconstrues his religion? I, for one, would never make a movie that mocked Our Lady's virginity. I would think that that'd be crossing the line, as it is. It's like saying, "I'm going to make a comedy about your miscarriage, but it's okay, because I'm going to do so jokingly." If something is very important (or if something is sacred), it just shouldn't be mocked.

God bless,

Jennifer

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[quote name='crusader1234' date='Jun 17 2004, 12:29 AM'] As for making a Holocaust Comedy, thats a bit different.  First of all, the subject matter is much more tender because it is so recent and so many people were murdered, rather than insulted.  Also, Dogma was made by a Catholic, and you are not a Jew.  The movie was not saying Ha Ha Catholics!  Take a Joke!  It was a Catholic taking a funny look at some parts of the faith he didn't fully understand. [/quote]
Hi Rich,

Like I said in one of my previous posts, blasphemy is probably a more serious sin than murder. Yes, the Holocaust was recent in history, but blasphemy is probably even more recent in that it is done quite frequently.

Do you think Jews would mind less if a Holocaust comedy was made by a Jew? I don't think that that would make it any better.

God bless,

Jen

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[quote name='point5' date='Jun 16 2004, 11:26 PM'] I realize weaker Catholics can get turned away by this movie, but that will not make me condemn it or stop watching it. Weaker Catholics leave the church every day due to a couple of out of context scripture verses by an anti-Catholic, or die hard protestant...weaker Catholics leave the church because of the publicised sex scandals. If someone is not gonna embrace their faith, and can allow a pure fiction movie, intended to make people laugh sway their personal beliefs, I ask what personal beliefs did they have in the first place. [/quote]
Hi Kiel,

This is a very serious problem. There are many poorly catechized Catholics in the world, but my point was that this movie doesn't exactly help the problem. If anything, it could make it worse.

[quote]Sorry if that came off harsh...I'm bitter about a test I have to study for LOL.... I love everyone here,[/quote]

Nah, that didn't come off harsh. Don't worry. I love everyone here, too! :)

God bless,

Jen

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I know I'm late in joining this discussion. All I have to say is that I am amused when people judge a movie without ever having seen it. Very amusing!

And for the record, I loved Dogma

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crusader1234

Amen!

Although it isn't all good, it has a lot of valid points.

My favourite part based on relation to my faith is where Bethany says she wishes she was a kid again where you just know exactly what God is and how you dont question him or anything

My favourite non faith part is the muse going:
"I'm responsible for nineteen of the twenty top grossing films of all time."
"Nineteen?"
"Yeah, the one about the kid by himself in his house, burglars trying to come in, and he fights them off? 'Aaaaa!' I had nothing to do with that one. Somebody sold their soul to Satan to get the grosses up on that piece of [expletive]

Edited by crusader1234
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spoonman3884

i think it is all well and good to poke fun at yourself sometimes, even necessary. but i think dogma crosses the line to offensive many times over and for smith to claim to be a practicing catholic is ALMOST as bad as John Kerry saying HE'S Catholic.
basically, the movie's whole point is not just to be funny and say there are some things that are not easily understood about the Catholic faith, the movie's whole point was to make people doubt the Truth of Catholicism by pointing out it's apparent ironies (which, properly understood, are not ironies at all) and satirizing the Church and everything it stands for.
George Carlin, who plays a Catholic Bishop in the movie, actually calls organized religion a "disease" in interviews. Anyone who thinks he would play a role in a movie about religion that is NOT intended to be disrespectful and ultimately offensive toward believers is not aware of what he and others in the movie stand for.
This movie is not just a play on the faith, it is meant to drive people away from Catholicism, plain and simple.


Joe

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joe-
you make some good points there... but who says you cant be a praticing catholic and make fun of your own religion... and yea he did point out alot of the apparent ironys... which i thougth was quite funny... as irony usually is... which i believe was the real point of the movie... to be funny... clearly evidenced by the presence of the characters of jay and silent bob... who could have turned gone with the wind into comedy... while i cant speak for smith i think the point of the movie was to be funny...and what is wrong with satirising the catholic church? could you explain what it is that is bad about satire and why the church should be exempt from it? As for Carlin... dont you think that smith might have chosen to cast him in the role as the bishop because of his beliefs about religion... another layer of irony there.... and would it not be plausible to assume that maybe carlin has to pay his electric bill too... all im saying is that i doubt that carlin sought out to be in this movie of his own accord... and its more plausable that he chose to do the movie for the paycheck rather than the statement. this movie is meant to make people laugh so that they give kevin smith and the studio their money. plain and simple.

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