Did Pope Benedict resign from the Papacy?

[Era Might]

There's a Pope and a Pope Emeritus. I doubt the common man much cares.

emeritus (adj.) 

c. 1600, from Latin emeritus "veteran soldier who has served his time," noun use of adjective meaning literally "that has finished work, past service," past participle ofemerere "serve out, complete one's service," from assimilated form of ex- "out" (see ex-) + merere "to serve, earn," from PIE *(s)mer- (2) "to get a share of something" (see merit (n.)). First used of retired professors 1794 in American English.

Edited April 29, 2015 by Era Might

[KnightofChrist]

There's a Pope and a Pope Emeritus. I doubt the common man much cares.

emeritus (adj.) 

c. 1600, from Latin emeritus "veteran soldier who has served his time," noun use of adjective meaning literally "that has finished work, past service," past participle ofemerere "serve out, complete one's service," from assimilated form of ex- "out" (see ex-) + merere "to serve, earn," from PIE *(s)mer- (2) "to get a share of something" (see merit (n.)). First used of retired professors 1794 in American English.

​Yes I understand meaning of the word emeritus. Still soldiers don't continue to wear their uniforms daily, nor do they continue living in the barracks when they retire from service. Also presidents don't continue to live in the White House after they've retired. Prior Popes, Kings and Queens who abdicate don't keep their royal name, nor do they continue to wear their royal dress, nor do they continue to live in the Royal palace. I do think the common man cares, doesn't care, and doesn't know to care. Since after all he is many persons.

[Era Might]

​Yes I understand meaning of the word emeritus. Still soldiers don't continue to wear their uniforms daily, nor do they continue living in the barracks when they retire from service. Also presidents don't continue to live in the White House after they've retired. Prior Popes, Kings and Queens who abdicate don't keep their royal name, nor do they continue to wear their royal dress, nor do they continue to live in the Royal palace. I do think the common man cares, doesn't care, and doesn't know to care. Since after all he is many persons.

​Yes, I don't think the point of the Pope Emeritus is to compare it with petty matters of secular authority. There are various traditional examples of "legal fictions" or symbolic roles in the church, e.g.:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bishop_(Catholic_Church)

Titular archbishop or titular bishop
A titular archbishop or titular bishop is a bishop assigned to a titular see, which is usually the name of a city or area that used to be the seat of a diocese, but whose episcopal see (diocese) is no longer functioning as such. Titular bishops often serve as auxiliary bishops, as officials in the Roman Curia, in the Patriarchal Curias of Eastern Churches, as apostolic nuncios or apostolic delegates. Since 1970, a coadjutor bishop uses the title of the see he is assigned to, and a bishop emeritus uses the title of his last residential see.

One of the beneficial lessons of Benedict's stepping down was that the papacy is not a game of thrones, though it has been that during its history, it is a spiritual office (a very different reason for resigning than someone like Celestine V, who was in the middle of a game of thrones). The Pope is not the only traditional figure associated with St. Peter, and the word "Pope" just means "Father." I think it would be strange for Benedict to just disappear from what he represents as a successor of St. Peter and the bishop emeritus of Rome. Even on a practical level, it's a sign of respect to his successor that he remains in the Vatican and is not traveling around the world like a free agent...he belongs to the Papacy in the same way a bishop always belongs to his see, even when there is a new bishop.

Edited April 29, 2015 by Era Might

[KnightofChrist]

 

​Yes, I don't think the point of the Pope Emeritus is to compare it with petty matters of secular authority. There are various traditional examples of "legal fictions" or symbolic roles in the church, e.g.:

One of the beneficial lessons of Benedict's stepping down was that the papacy is not a game of thrones, though it has been that during its history, it is a spiritual office (a very different reason for resigning than someone like Celestine V, who was in the middle of a game of thrones). The Pope is not the only traditional figure associated with St. Peter, and the word "Pope" just means "Father." I think it would be strange for Benedict to just disappear from what he represents as a successor of St. Peter and the bishop emeritus of Rome. Even on a practical level, it's a sign of respect to his successor that he remains in the Vatican and is not traveling around the world like a free agent...he belongs to the Papacy in the same way a bishop always belongs to his see, even when there is a new bishop.

​I think it is odd to renounce the office of Pontiff yet still hold on to the appearance of the Pontiff. I like that prior pontiffs who've renounced the office gave up everything connected to the office, the power and the appearance. I hope the future popes that renounce the office follow that tradition of completely renouncing the power and the appearance.

[Ark]

Esteemed scholars of Canon Law say this is not as simple. Remember that legal speak is different from common speech. Where we might see clarity a lawyer could identify imprecise language that leave doors wide open. Pope Benedict's behavior isn't helping To alleviate confusion.

[Era Might]

​I think it is odd to renounce the office of Pontiff yet still hold on to the appearance of the Pontiff. I like that prior pontiffs who've renounced the office gave up everything connected to the office, the power and the appearance. I hope the future popes that renounce the office follow that tradition of completely renouncing the power and the appearance.

​I think that kind of gesture only makes sense for worldly reasons (e.g., Caesar Augustus killing the son of Cleopatra/Julius Caesar to protect his claim as emperor). From a spiritual perspective, I don't think it really harmonizes with the idea of what a bishop and a father is. The Papacy is not only (certainly not primarily) a worldly office akin to a king or emperor, where all authority must be ruthlessly protected. I don't think Benedict's resignation was in the tradition of previous renunciations of the papacy, but was something new, partly personal (his health) but also a recognition of the papacy as a spiritual office for the good of the church, not something to be clung on to for the sake of keeping power. The medieval papacy was not just a spiritual office but very much a temporal power, something which certainly has nothing to do with St. Peter or the spiritual tradition that the Pope represents.

[Guest]

I doubt the common man much cares.

Good point. 

[KnightofChrist]

 

​I think that kind of gesture only makes sense for worldly reasons (e.g., Caesar Augustus killing the son of Cleopatra/Julius Caesar to protect his claim as emperor). From a spiritual perspective, I don't think it really harmonizes with the idea of what a bishop and a father is. The Papacy is not only (certainly not primarily) a worldly office akin to a king or emperor, where all authority must be ruthlessly protected. I don't think Benedict's resignation was in the tradition of previous renunciations of the papacy, but was something new, partly personal (his health) but also a recognition of the papacy as a spiritual office for the good of the church, not something to be clung on to for the sake of keeping power. The medieval papacy was not just a spiritual office but very much a temporal power, something which certainly has nothing to do with St. Peter or the spiritual tradition that the Pope represents.

​I don't agree that to give up everything to do with an office is worldly. I believe it to be an ultimate act of humility. To give up everything is not a worldly act.

[Guest]

So do you think there are two Pope's Knight?

[KnightofChrist]

So do you think there are two Pope's Knight?

​No, I stated earlier I did not. Honestly I'm just having some fun, some, not much lol. I have always had issues with Benedict keeping his papal name, I do think it would be better to give that up along with the office he gave up. But I'm not even sure it was his choice. I believe he actually wanted to become or live as a simple monk away from the public and give up everything.

[KnightofChrist]

I'm sorry if I caused confusion Josh, just because it appeared I was arguing there was two popes didn't mean I was actually doing so. Just because it appears that we have two popes doesn't mean we have two popes. But it is confusing when they appear to both be the Pope.

[Guest]

I'm sorry if I caused confusion Josh, just because it appeared I was arguing there was two popes didn't mean I was actually doing so. Just because it appears that we have two popes doesn't mean we have two popes. But it is confusing when they appear to both be the Pope.

No you're good. This is the debate phorum. I should remember that. Do you think the false prophet that will tell the world to worship the antichrist will possibly be a antipope? I've heard Catholics say this and also a Protestant Pastor who isn't really anti-catholic. Although he could be anti-catholic. I'm undecided.

Edited April 29, 2015 by Guest

[truthfinder]

What about an archbishop emeritus? - looks like a bishop, retains the name bishop, but has no juridical powers and you don't typically see people concerned whether or not they really tenured their resignation.  

[Ark]

What about an archbishop emeritus? - looks like a bishop, retains the name bishop, but has no juridical powers and you don't typically see people concerned whether or not they really tenured their resignation.  

The problem is that there are charisms unique to the Papal office office that can not be relinquished unless a Pope passes away or abdicates. Some very educated people that are experts in Canon Law say Benedict did not abdicate from office but rather relinquished certain powers. This is based on what Benedict himself is reported to having said.

If true, we are in an interesting situation. The charism of infallibility would have to lie with Benedict. 

[KnightofChrist]

What about an archbishop emeritus? - looks like a bishop, retains the name bishop, but has no juridical powers and you don't typically see people concerned whether or not they really tenured their resignation.  

​A bishop emeritus is still a real bishop, a bishop without juridical powers, but a real bishop. He still has sacramental charisma unique to the office of bishop, apostolic succession for example.