Did Pope Benedict resign from the Papacy?

[PhuturePriest]

I would like to hear his opinion. He's crystal clear on everything else. It's been discussed here that it's a possibility the false prophet from Revelations will be an anti pope. So if that's the case then a counterfeit satanic catholic church doesn't seem that far fetched.

​He is very loyal to Pope Francis and vehemently disagrees with anyone bashing him, which means he doesn't have to speak on this. He supports Pope Francis, therefore it logically follows that he doesn't believe he is an anti-Pope.

[Guest]

Not talking about Pope Francis.

[KnightofChrist]

I just want to put this out there... Stefano Viol is not Michael Voris.

 

[KnightofChrist]

I will add this to the discussion. Benedict has kept his papal name, has modified but kept the papal title, has kept the papal dress, and has kept his residence in the papal see.

[Ark]

I will add this to the discussion. Benedict has kept his papal name, has modified but kept the papal title, has kept the papal dress, and has kept his residence in the papal see.

​Exactly, and he has chosen to remain in the Vatican. This is something very different from Pope St. Celestine V. 

[Era Might]

I will add this to the discussion. Benedict has kept his papal name, has modified but kept the papal title, has kept the papal dress, and has kept his residence in the papal see.

​I think that's pretty standard for emeritus roles. We still call past presidents Mr. President, he still gets secret service, etc. As you'll see from my title, I'm still Moderator Emeritus and retain my monthly salary.

Edited April 28, 2015 by Era Might

[Era Might]

The Pope's declaration is pretty straightforward, what's ambiguous about it?

http://w2.vatican.va/content/benedict-xvi/en/speeches/2013/february/documents/hf_ben-xvi_spe_20130211_declaratio.html

For this reason, and well aware of the seriousness of this act, with full freedom I declare that I renounce the ministry of Bishop of Rome, Successor of Saint Peter, entrusted to me by the Cardinals on 19 April 2005, in such a way, that as from 28 February 2013, at 20:00 hours, the See of Rome, the See of Saint Peter, will be vacant and a Conclave to elect the new Supreme Pontiff will have to be convoked by those whose competence it is.

[Maggyie]

I don't think Benedict thinks he's still pope or that he created a di-whatever. Sometimes we just have to take people at their word and not theologize everything. Common sense. 

[Ark]

The Pope's declaration is pretty straightforward, what's ambiguous about it?

"In the formula employed by Benedict, primarily, there is a distinction between the munus, the papal office, and the execution, that is the active exercise of the office itself: but the executio is twofold: there is the governmental aspect which is exercised agendo et loquendo (working and teaching); but there is also the spiritual aspect, no less important, which is exercised orando et patendo (praying and suffering). It is that which would be behind Benedict XVI’s words: “I do not return to private life […] I no longer bear the power of office for the governance of the Church, but in the service of prayer I remain, so to speak, in the enclosure of Saint Peter. “Enclosure” here would not be meant only in the sense of a geographical place, where one lives, but also a theological “place.”

"Benedict XVI divested himself of all the power of government and command inherent in his office, without however, abandoning his service to the Church: this continues through the exercise of the spiritual dimension of the pontifical munus entrusted to him. This he did not intend renouncing. He renounced not his duties, which are, irrevocable, but the concrete execution of them.

[Era Might]

"In the formula employed by Benedict, primarily, there is a distinction between the munus, the papal office, and the execution, that is the active exercise of the office itself: but the executio is twofold: there is the governmental aspect which is exercised agendo et loquendo (working and teaching); but there is also the spiritual aspect, no less important, which is exercised orando et patendo (praying and suffering). It is that which would be behind Benedict XVI’s words: “I do not return to private life […] I no longer bear the power of office for the governance of the Church, but in the service of prayer I remain, so to speak, in the enclosure of Saint Peter. “Enclosure” here would not be meant only in the sense of a geographical place, where one lives, but also a theological “place.”

"Benedict XVI divested himself of all the power of government and command inherent in his office, without however, abandoning his service to the Church: this continues through the exercise of the spiritual dimension of the pontifical munus entrusted to him. This he did not intend renouncing. He renounced not his duties, which are, irrevocable, but the concrete execution of them.

​That's a lot of gymnastics. "the See of Saint Peter, will be vacant and a Conclave to elect the new Supreme Pontiff will have to be convoked by those whose competence it is."

And also traditional there are three Petrine sees: Rome, Antioch, and Alexandria. I think it would be silly to just send the Pope packing as though he were never Pope...he continues in some sense what apparently Benedict calls "the enclosure of Saint Peter." There was something similar in the life of St. Francis, he had to designate someone to lead the order and become himself a "lesser brother," but of course, if St. Francis is still living he's not going to just disappear as though he were irrelevant to the Franciscans.

[Amppax]

I don't think Benedict thinks he's still pope or that he created a di-whatever. Sometimes we just have to take people at their word and not theologize everything. Common sense. 

​You are just no fun. 

[KnightofChrist]

Just for fun, if something looks like duck, quacks like a duck, lives in a duck house, calls himself a duck. Is it a duck?

All other Pontiffs from what I recalled gave up all appearances of the papal office, the name, the dress, the title, living in the Holy See. Benedict does not do as his fathers before him.

[KnightofChrist]

​ I think that's pretty standard for emeritus roles. We still call past presidents Mr. President, he still gets secret service, etc. As you'll see from my title, I'm still Moderator Emeritus and retain my monthly salary.

​The Pope is not a President. The comparison is invalid. There was no precedent for a Pope emeritus role, all other Pontiffs who've abdicated gave up all appearances of the office.

Edited April 29, 2015 by KnightofChrist

[Era Might]

​The Pope is not a President. The comparison is invalid. There was no precedent for a Pope emeritus role, all other Pontiffs who've abdicated gave up all appearances of the office.

​Clearly there is no precedent, but the Pope chose to make the precedent around the role of an emeritus, which does have precedent in the manner in which the Pope has adopted it (such as a president). Now there is a precedent.

[KnightofChrist]

​Clearly there is no precedent, but the Pope chose to make the precedent around the role of an emeritus, which does have precedent in the manner in which the Pope has adopted it (such as a president). Now there is a precedent.

​No, it's currently novelty/new, it will be precedent only when and if another Pontiff does it too and sites Benedict's actions as an example. Anyway I don't believe there are currently two Popes but the current arrangement easily makes it appear there are two Popes. It gives the conspiracy theorists fuel for fire and the common man confusion and the appearance of dualism of two Popes.