The Historian Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Sorry for my ignorance. What does EF and OF refer to? The EF is short for the Extraordinary Form of the Roman Rite, which is the liturgy which was last codified in 1962, and which every priest has permission to celebrate. The OF is short for the Ordinary Form of the Roman Rite, which is the liturgy developed after the Second Vatican Council. It is usually in the verncular and is the most common liturgy you'll find in the Latin West. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puellapaschalis Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Your first point really hits the nail on the head for me, and that is a point that most people on this thread do not understand. Respectfully, this is a bit of a stretch, seeing the information you've been given here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oremus1 Posted April 20, 2015 Author Share Posted April 20, 2015 My conscience feels very troubled at using the OF breviary. like if it is a cop out for those who cant be bothered. all of my traditional friends will think I am a spiritual weakling. some of them even call it the 'McOffice' or 'Breviary-lite'. it does seem much holier to pray a longer and more complicated office. I am so confused. I also feel like I would be severing all ties with our forefathers. losing the calendar, the liturgy and not the Office, and latin. this is all so woesome what else would you be doing in the time you would save by saying the shorter breviary? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oremus1 Posted April 20, 2015 Author Share Posted April 20, 2015 Just to demonstrate that the two breviaries are not at all comparable Novus Ordo http://divineoffice.org/ Traditional http://divinumofficium.com Probably one could say the whole NO day's breviary in the time it takes to say Matins in the EF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egeria Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 it does seem much holier to pray a longer and more complicated office. "We must know that God regards our purity of heart and tears of compunction, not our many words. Prayer should therefore be short and pure, unless perhaps it is prolonged under the inspiration of divine grace." Rule of St Benedict, Chapter 20, 3-4 Also, I wouldn't take people seriously who referred to the approved texts of my Church as "McOffice" or "Breviary-lite." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puellapaschalis Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 My conscience feels very troubled at using the OF breviary. like if it is a cop out for those who cant be bothered. all of my traditional friends will think I am a spiritual weakling. some of them even call it the 'McOffice' or 'Breviary-lite'. it does seem much holier to pray a longer and more complicated office. I am so confused. I also feel like I would be severing all ties with our forefathers. losing the calendar, the liturgy and not the Office, and latin. this is all so woesome what else would you be doing in the time you would save by saying the shorter breviary? A few years ago I switched from the OF breviary to the traditional Benedictine books. Right now I pray a modified, vernacular, Office in common. It tires me out - see Sr MC's point above - and ideally I'd be praying with the trad OSB books. But sacrifices are part of life, and sometimes you have to sacrifice being able to sacrifice more of your time in order to say Office. However, if you are not able to pray the traditional Office, of whatever stripe, it is ok to pray some other decent way ("Pray as you can and not as you can't"), assuming you are not canonically obliged to some particular form. I'm told that God sees our longing for the older forms and books all the more when we are unable to use them. If that's what you have to use, then don't be discouraged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oremus1 Posted April 20, 2015 Author Share Posted April 20, 2015 So is the Novus Ordo breciary only for people who cant pray the traditional office? For those who are not willing to make the sacrifice of time to pray the traditional office?Therefore it really is a second option and a breviary lite. is that right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sr Mary Catharine OP Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 The Church has many times reformed the breviary and the main reason has been to make it more "manageable" to pray. Over time it gets loaded down with extra feasts, memorials, etc. This isn't something that happened just at Vatican II. The Divine Office is the OFFICIAL PRAYER OF THE CHURCH. The Church has the right and responsibility to determined its content. The main reason for the Divine Office is to sanctify the day. The Divine Office wasn't invented by the Church but comes out of the Jewish practice to sanctify the hours. It can't always be done but if one is deputed to pray the Office by the Church one should be making an effort to pray the hours at the times specified and not just "getting it in" as though it were private prayer. This is what was happening before Vatican II to make it manageable. This is a really important aspect of the reform of the Office.The reform was geared primarily for priests whose days are filled with many pastoral duties. For those of us in the monasteries it does sort of "limp" a bit.The Office is not supposed to be an endurance test. It is supposed to be the way we participate in the praise and worship of God that the angels do standing before God. The Office is GIVEN to us by the Church. it's not our personal, private prayer.Oremus1, you asked if there was more GRACE given for praying the EF Office. Later you gave the opinion that, "additional discipline and time and effort of saying the EF breviary must surely merit something." Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. However, we can't earn grace. Grace is God's free gift of his Divine LIfe in which we participate through our baptism. We can become more receptive and open to his Divine Life in us through the life of virtue but God doesn't give only a little bit of himself! He gives himself totally to us!St. Thomas, in answering the question as to whether something is more meritorious because it is more difficult says, "The "good" has, more than the "difficult," to do with the reason of merit and virtue. Therefore it does not follow that whatever is more difficult is more meritorious, but only what is more difficult, and at the same time better." II-II Question 27, Art 8. I would really be at peace with praying the Office as it is given to us by the Church today. If you do just a little research on the history of the Office you will see how many changes it has gone through. The Office as prayed in say, 1955 is not the office that was prayed in 1855 because St. Pius X made sweeping reforms of the breviary. The calendar has constantly gone through reforms as well. This was especially so with the Dominicans! The saints were constantly being moved around, dropped out of the office calendar, put back in! For example, did you know that Bl. Imelda used to be celebrated in SEPTEMBER? Then after St. Pius X changed the age one could receive communion it was moved to MAY as she is the patroness of 1st Communicants!Also, many communities used to sing most of the Office recto-tono so as to manage to get it done! I was so surprised when I visited a Solesmes monastery of nuns how they chanted Matins and Lauds recto-tono and they just whipped through it at 80mph! Each part just ran into the next. I wasn't impressed.Holiness is about grace and virtue not about how long one prays something or the difficulty. And as someone who chants and sings the entire office each day I would strongly disagree that it is breviary-lite! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggyie Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Oremus don't fall into the trap of believing that God is more pleased by prayers that are complicated and long or hard to say. This is scrupulosity, it is not Catholic. He is equally pleased by long prayers and short prayers that are said from the heart. He is BEST pleased by the simple prayer of a child. A good example is the Holy Rosary, with the Luminous Mysteries the Rosary is now longer and more complicated. Does this mean the traditional Rosary has fewer graces since it takes shorter to say? Of course not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oremus1 Posted April 20, 2015 Author Share Posted April 20, 2015 Oremus don't fall into the trap of believing that God is more pleased by prayers that are complicated and long or hard to say. This is scrupulosity, it is not Catholic. He is equally pleased by long prayers and short prayers that are said from the heart. He is BEST pleased by the simple prayer of a child. A good example is the Holy Rosary, with the Luminous Mysteries the Rosary is now longer and more complicated. Does this mean the traditional Rosary has fewer graces since it takes shorter to say? Of course not. But I suppose the question would be, what is someone doing that is more important than praying the EF Office, that makes them need a shorter one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nunsuch Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Well, for example, an apostolic religious who is doing her/his ministry--such as teaching, nursing, whatever--under obedience, is doing something more "important" than praying formal prayers, since that is what they are SUPPOSED to be doing. That is what the vow of obedience is all about! Also, keep in mind that the EF is just that--EXTRAORDINARY. If the Church thought it was "more meritorious," don't you think that would be the ORDINARY form? What "feels good" to you is fine, but it is not necessarily "best" for everyone (maybe not even for you). I think we are meant to pray in many ways: not just formal prayer such as the office, or devotional prayers like the rosary, but also through contemplation, seeking and doing the will of God, and so on. Sometimes prayer is serving Jesus in the form of our sisters and brothers. Do not fall into the trap of legalism and pride. I think Sr. Mary Catharine's postings have so much wisdom to them, and she obviously knows from experience what she is talking about! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriela Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 what else would you be doing in the time you would save by saying the shorter breviary? Umm... putting food on the table? I'm starting to feel that the OP was (deliberately?) misleading... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriela Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 (edited) For anyone who's starting to feel bad about their daily prayer routine as a result of this thread, I would just like to publicly announce that I do not even pray the Office. I pray the morning and evening prayer from the Magnificat, which takes about 10 minutes each—15 if you put in a really long personal intention before the Our Father. In fact, I almost always pray evening prayer at 3 in the morning, lying down in bed. Sometimes, when things are really hectic, I can't even manage to pray both of these prayers each day. And to that, I would like to add that a Carthusian nun once lit up like a firefly in utter delight when I told her that I pray the morning and evening prayer from the Magnificat. She was positively giddy, God bless her. Edited April 20, 2015 by Gabriela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oremus1 Posted April 20, 2015 Author Share Posted April 20, 2015 For anyone who's starting to feel bad about their daily prayer routine as a result of this thread, I would just like to publicly announce that I do not even pray the Office. I pray the morning and evening prayer from the Magnificat, which takes about 10 minutes each—15 if you put in a really long personal intention before the Our Father. In fact, I almost always pray evening prayer at 3 in the morning, lying down in bed. Sometimes, when things are really hectic, I can't even manage to pray both of these prayers each day. And to that, I would like to add that a Carthusian nun once lit up like a firefly in utter delight when I told her that I pray the morning and evening prayer from the Magnificat. She was positively giddy, God bless her. People on this thread should not feel bad. This thread was for people obliged in some way to say the Office, as to which one they use It was more that I felt bad to switch to the OF office - because it is shorter and easier and prime is suppressed. i am pretty sure all of the traddys will say I am a modernist if I do.I might say the OF office for a couple of days to try it out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriela Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 This thread was for people obliged in some way to say the Office, as to which one they use Oh, well, I am glad you made that clear! I wouldn't worry about the "traddys" if I were you. People on the extreme ends of movements will always define everything in terms of "us" and "them". (I say that as a trad myself, just not one on the extreme end of anything. Unless you count Jesus. ) If you are doing what the Church approves, you can't go wrong. And the Church approves the OF Office! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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