Sex in Heaven?

[Ash Wednesday]

Superblue and Josh, stop with the personal attacks or you're both going to get kicked out of the sandbox for a couple of days.

[Guest]

Superblue I apologize. I hope you have a good Sunday. God bless.

[Ash Wednesday]

He's been given 3 days in the cooler because he was still pushing the issue and I did not appreciate his public disrespect towards my attempts to keep the peace (post in question has been removed per phorum rules.)

[Sirklawd]

Josh's question is:

What about in Heaven? Not saying one way or the other. Although Jesus did create sex and its good. I've wondered this before but figure it's not something to dwell on.

​I just skimmed through the thread, and despite the personal pot-shots and other silliness this is actually a really good question. The Catholic Church is trying so hard right now to convince the world how amazing the true meaning of sex is, it's only fair that someone will start to get it and wonder if we will have it in heaven.

Peter Kreeft is a very smart Catholic philosopher who teachers in Boston (at BC), he has a talk that I would implore you listen to, Josh. Helpfully, it's titled "Sex in Heaven". In the talk, Mr. Kreeft discusses this exact question. It's a live talk that he's giving at a church or conference or something, so rest assured plenty of people are curious about this topic as well, and the answer is not as black and white as some people on the Phorum are trying to make it.  (No offense to anyone. In fact, I would encourage everyone to listen to it. (Here's a free transcript if you do not want to pay $2)

It's been a few months since I've listened to it (I liked to listen to these talks every so often to refresh my soul and brain), but I will try to summarize, because I believe Mr. Kreeft has without a doubt the best answer to the question:

In no particular order:

--Jesus was born a male, died a male, and raise a male, he has a male body now and forever. Therefore we all will still be male and female in heaven with our glorified bodies. (Additionally, we couldn't live without being male and female. Despite what our culture would like to believe, these are as part of our identity as anything else. Being masculine and feminine goes much much deeper than merely who we are sexually attractive to.)

--Our glorified bodies are physical bodies. Jesus proved this to the apostles by touching and eating with them. His body still works physically. The question really becomes do we need to? For example, Jesus can eat fish with his Apostles...but if he doesn't eat surely he's not going to die...

--Sex, as we know it here on earth, between a man and woman in marriage, is a metaphor for the relationship between the members of the Trinity. We may say "The love between the Father, Son and Holy Spirit is like the relationship between a Father, Mother, and child." But it is more proper to that our relationships are like that of the Trinity. Ours is a living symbol. And being a symbol, it is but a shadow or the real thing. Like, as good and pure and selfless the best sex can be on earth, it's nothing compared to the ecstasy we will experience in the heavenly marriage. (This ecstasy is what that sculpture of St. Teresa is depicting.)

--Considering sex on earth, as a culture we are all still confused about the pleasure of the act. We are still trying to figure out if it's ok to enjoy the act, and how lust fits into that. Long story short, the love your spouse and wanting to give yourself to him or her actually out-weighs the physical pleasure of the act, and in fact makes the physical aspect more enjoyable. Makes sense to me that the act of greatest selflessness and love that actually creates another human being is also the most enjoyable. Our God is a loving God after all. In the talk, Mr. Kreeft discusses that pleasure is never bad when it comes from self-gift and love. This is part of Gods' design and we will definitely have it in heaven.

--So it looks like we would certainly be able to have physical intercourse, but the question is would we? Sort of in conclusion (and I'm glossing over a ton) is that we wouldn't have sex (and therefore marriage) in heaven simply because there's something better. Seriously read this -  

If the possibility of intercourse in Heaven is not actualized, it is only for the same reason earthly lovers do not eat candy during intercourse: there is something much better to do. The question of intercourse in Heaven is like the child's question whether you can eat candy during intercourse: a funny question only from the adult's point of view. Candy is one of children's greatest pleasures; how can they conceive a pleasure so intense that it renders candy irrelevant? Only if you know both can you compare two things, and all those who have tasted both the delights of physical intercourse with the earthly beloved and the delights of spiritual intercourse with God testify that there is simply no comparison.

-Peter Kreeft

And in conclusion, Peter Kreeft writes about God's love - 

...[T]hink of the love that made the worlds, the love that became human, suffered alienation from itself and died to save us rebels, the love that gleams through the fanatic joy of Jesus' obedience to the will of His Father and that shines in the eyes and lives of the saints—to think of this love as any less passionate than our temporary and conditioned passions "is a most disastrous fantasy". And that consuming fire of love is our destined Husband, according to His own promise. Sex in Heaven? Indeed, and no pale, abstract, merely mental shadow of it either. Earthly sex is the shadow, and our lives are a process of thickening so that we can share in the substance, becoming Heavenly fire so that we can endure and rejoice in the Heavenly fire.

-Peter Kreeft

Sorry for the epic post. I hope this helps. If anyone is interested, I would also recommend another of Peter Kreeft's talks "Women and the Priesthood" which really gets into God and Jesus as Masculine and helps navigate the confusion our current culture has on the subject. Hands down it's the best explanation about why only men can be priests.

Edited April 26, 2015 by Sirklawd

[Gabriela]

Wait, other people don't eat candy during intercourse?

[Ark]

I've heard Kreeft say some strange things. He might be an ok philosopher but I'd be weary of any theological opinion he has.

[Credo in Deum]

 

​I just skimmed through the thread, and despite the personal pot-shots and other silliness this is actually a really good question. The Catholic Church is trying so hard right now to convince the world how amazing the true meaning of sex is, it's only fair that someone will start to get it and wonder if we will have it in heaven.

Peter Kreeft is a very smart Catholic philosopher who teachers in Boston (at BC), he has a talk that I would implore you listen to, Josh. Helpfully, it's titled "Sex in Heaven". In the talk, Mr. Kreeft discusses this exact question. It's a live talk that he's giving at a church or conference or something, so rest assured plenty of people are curious about this topic as well, and the answer is not as black and white as some people on the Phorum are trying to make it.  (No offense to anyone. In fact, I would encourage everyone to listen to it. (Here's a free transcript if you do not want to pay $2)

It's been a few months since I've listened to it (I liked to listen to these talks every so often to refresh my soul and brain), but I will try to summarize, because I believe Mr. Kreeft has without a doubt the best answer to the question:

In no particular order:

--Jesus was born a male, died a male, and raise a male, he has a male body now and forever. Therefore we all will still be male and female in heaven with our glorified bodies. (Additionally, we couldn't live without being male and female. Despite what our culture would like to believe, these are as part of our identity as anything else. Being masculine and feminine goes much much deeper than merely who we are sexually attractive to.)

--Our glorified bodies are physical bodies. Jesus proved this to the apostles by touching and eating with them. His body still works physically. The question really becomes do we need to? For example, Jesus can eat fish with his Apostles...but if he doesn't eat surely he's not going to die...

--Sex, as we know it here on earth, between a man and woman in marriage, is a metaphor for the relationship between the members of the Trinity. We may say "The love between the Father, Son and Holy Spirit is like the relationship between a Father, Mother, and child." But it is more proper to that our relationships are like that of the Trinity. Ours is a living symbol. And being a symbol, it is but a shadow or the real thing. Like, as good and pure and selfless the best sex can be on earth, it's nothing compared to the ecstasy we will experience in the heavenly marriage. (This ecstasy is what that sculpture of St. Teresa is depicting.)

--Considering sex on earth, as a culture we are all still confused about the pleasure of the act. We are still trying to figure out if it's ok to enjoy the act, and how lust fits into that. Long story short, the love your spouse and wanting to give yourself to him or her actually out-weighs the physical pleasure of the act, and in fact makes the physical aspect more enjoyable. Makes sense to me that the act of greatest selflessness and love that actually creates another human being is also the most enjoyable. Our God is a loving God after all. In the talk, Mr. Kreeft discusses that pleasure is never bad when it comes from self-gift and love. This is part of Gods' design and we will definitely have it in heaven.

--So it looks like we would certainly be able to have physical intercourse, but the question is would we? Sort of in conclusion (and I'm glossing over a ton) is that we wouldn't have sex (and therefore marriage) in heaven simply because there's something better. Seriously read this -  

And in conclusion, Peter Kreeft writes about God's love - 

Sorry for the epic post. I hope this helps. If anyone is interested, I would also recommend another of Peter Kreeft's talks "Women and the Priesthood" which really gets into God and Jesus as Masculine and helps navigate the confusion our current culture has on the subject. Hands down it's the best explanation about why only men can be priests.

I love reading Peter Kreeft, but I don't see how what he has said is different from what most posters have already said?  No one is saying that sex couldn't be done in heaven, but rather that it won't be done in heaven because to what purpose would it serve? Who would be thinking of anything else but the gloriousness of God in the beatific vision?  Sex on earth, when done in marriage, is a shadow of the love God has for mankind.  In fact when done in marriage it can even be a means of obtaining grace! The act itself is the height of bodily pleasure we here on earth can experience, and the height of unity two human persons can share with each other while on earth. It is a means of sanctification but also a temporary pleasure so that we do not become complacent while on earth.  It has been given to us as a means to an end which is our salvation, and It has been given to us so that we can reflect on how if such a great God would give us such a gift for the short time we are here on earth, then surely this same great and wonderful God Has, in His Infinite Wisdom, prepared an Eternal Home which will far surpase the pleasures of this temporal one!  In fact it is this great confidence in God which gives religious and priests the inspiration to offer to God their entire being and their legitimate right to the sacrament of marriage, in order to unite themselves even closer to the Person of Christ while on earth! 

Yes sex, when done in marriage, is beautiful and amazing, but it is nothing compared to the joys and pleasures which the Heavenly Father has prepared for us in Heaven.  

[Luigi]

When I try to read philosophy, I get confused. I'm very practical.

So my question is: If a guy were married three times on earth (a couple of my great uncles were - all wives died natural deaths), who would he have sex with in heaven? Did Jesus say something like "There's no marriage and giving-in-marriage in heaven?"

 

 

In the end, I'll just have to wait to see.

 

[PhuturePriest]

Perhaps it's just my puritanical thinking coming in, but if the idea of sex in heaven proposed is true, we must logically conclude Saints Therese and Peter (or any other Saint you want to match up) could have sex with each other, and I find that nothing short of blasphemous, if I'm being honest.

[veritasluxmea]

That's it, I vote we close this thread. 

[Nihil Obstat]

When I try to read philosophy, I get confused. I'm very practical.

So my question is: If a guy were married three times on earth (a couple of my great uncles were - all wives died natural deaths), who would he have sex with in heaven? Did Jesus say something like "There's no marriage and giving-in-marriage in heaven?"

 

 

In the end, I'll just have to wait to see.

 

Philosophy can be the most practical discipline around, depending on your preferred area.

[PhuturePriest]

 

Philosophy can be the most practical discipline around, depending on your preferred area.

​Pragmatism is, after all, its very own philosophy.

[Edward]

You have no idea once we have resurrected bodies if there will be something similar to sex. Just because there is no marriage does not rule this out. If there is or isn't sex or something similar Heaven will be perfect so I'm not worried. But as I said my fingers are crossed.

​

The divine declaration was that it was “not good for the man to be alone” The text reveals that God and the man enjoyed a genuine, interactive relationship in the pristine environment of the garden, but God had created man as a relational being a being with capacity for a relationship with God, as well as a capacity, indeed, need for relationship with others like himself.  This divinely created need for companionship and relationship was part of the original creation to which the new creation returns. Granted, after man’s lapse into sin in the garden, the need for relationship in humanity was seriously marred and deformed. But, did God declare a law of marriage in a perfect world?  There are no such law. There were no laws of marriage imposed on Adam and Eve either. The only laws were “Don’t eat from that tree” and ” Be fruitful, start multiplying”.

They were made man and wife. Again, in a perfect world, no laws of marriage were needed…But, they were commanded to have sex and multiply. This is what made Adam and Eve to be man and wife. She came out of his rib. This made them related. Was this a law or an act of God? What law of marriage was imposed upon Adam and Eve? In the portion of Scripture above, God was silent. Adam did all the talking. Adam was prophesying about  FUTURE relationships (Adam didn’t have a Mom and Dad).God didn’t need a law to make Adam and Eve to be man and wife. Why would you even need laws of marriage in a perfect world? In a perfect world, when God did the pairing, no law was needed. Adam and Eve were made to be man and wife while they were in an immortal state intended to be forever without death. So, did God intend for them to be man and wife forever? In Heaven, will God undo what He originally did in a perfect world? Think about that. In a manner of speaking, will He return Eve back to the rib and stop their relationship which he made and said was good? God will not undo any laws of marriage over Adam and Eve because there never were any to begin with. They will have their bodies and a wonderfully fulfilled loving relationship, though they will no longer be procreating children.Heaven will be a perfect world, and no laws of marriage will be needed there either. Jesus made it very clear that in the age to come there will be no laws of marriage, no earthly ceremonies, no contracts being made where the father gets paid to sell his daughter (given in marriage). Yet, as in the perfect state of union that Adam and Eve had  a relationship God made them to need and to have — in heaven he will not undo what he did in the Garden. A man will know and love his counterpart that God gave him. They will love each other in that relationship for all eternity.

[little2add]

Could it be that existence in heaven is beyond physical needs? 

[Nihil Obstat]

Could it be that existence in heaven is beyond physical needs? 

​Physical needs, obviously. But a physical presence, a physical mode of existence, no.