head transplant

[Not A Mallard]

[Nihil Obstat]

I doubt this would be successful, but it seems I recall reading somewhere that the Church teaches that head/brain transplants (if possible) would be immoral, as would genital transplants.  

​Well, the philosophical issues are obvious and serious. Even aside from the obvious ethical considerations of even just performing the procedure.

[truthfinder]

​Well, the philosophical issues are obvious and serious. Even aside from the obvious ethical considerations of even just performing the procedure.

​Nihil, any chance you have any ideas about my question about whose soul it would be? I guess my question boils down to where does the soul reside?

[Nihil Obstat]

​Nihil, any chance you have any ideas about my question about whose soul it would be? I guess my question boils down to where does the soul reside?

I would be inclined to think the head, but at the same time I think such a situation would have to do real violence to the overall integrity of the person. Maybe not in a way that is immediately apparent... but I think the surviving person's identity would definitely be affected in a major way.

[CrossCuT]

Wow this seems so cray and fascinating. Extreme Makeover: Organ Donation Edition.

This doctor has been quoted as saying that it would be a good option for those with gender dysmorphia. 

​Oy with the poodles already. If we are afraid of all technology because it may potentially impact the lives of people we view as different in a positive way then we should shut down everything. I dont know what trans person would be willing to spend $11 million dollars to transplant their flippin head on another body when much less invasive and less costly procedures can be done. Obviously some nutty people would chuck that kind of money at it, but lawd. Its totally not even relevant to this procedure imo.

[CatherineM]

Wow this seems so cray and fascinating. Extreme Makeover: Organ Donation Edition.

​Oy with the poodles already. If we are afraid of all technology because it may potentially impact the lives of people we view as different in a positive way then we should shut down everything. I dont know what trans person would be willing to spend $11 million dollars to transplant their flippin head on another body when much less invasive and less costly procedures can be done. Obviously some nutty people would chuck that kind of money at it, but lawd. Its totally not even relevant to this procedure imo.

I'm not worried about it affecting people who are different from me. I was just reporting something this doctor said it was good for. 

[truthfinder]

I would be inclined to think the head, but at the same time I think such a situation would have to do real violence to the overall integrity of the person. Maybe not in a way that is immediately apparent... but I think the surviving person's identity would definitely be affected in a major way.

​Yes, thank you.  This reminded about the passage in the catechism of the council of Trent saying "Pastors should be particularly careful to observe that the baptismal ablution is not to be applied indifferently to any part of the body, but principally to the head, which is the seat of all the internal and external senses"

At the same time, I remember reading something a long while back about individual body parts having soul (or at least because of their connection with the soul), if they were to be amputated, they should be buried in consecrated ground.  Please correct me if I've got that wrong.  

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

​Yes, thank you.  This reminded about the passage in the catechism of the council of Trent saying "Pastors should be particularly careful to observe that the baptismal ablution is not to be applied indifferently to any part of the body, but principally to the head, which is the seat of all the internal and external senses"

At the same time, I remember reading something a long while back about individual body parts having soul (or at least because of their connection with the soul), if they were to be amputated, they should be buried in consecrated ground.  Please correct me if I've got that wrong.  

​This made me think of a related question. If it is the case that individual body parts have a soul (or are connected to the soul) what is the Roman Catholic view of organ donation or receipt of a donated organ? Perhaps organ donation is not an issue because the organ has been taken from a deceased person, and the person's soul has left their body, leaving nothing of the person's soul in an organ that is donated or received. Have I misunderstood something or does the Roman Catholic Church take a different view? (This issue would, at least at first glance, have the possibility of being more complicated if the organ in question is the head--or maybe not.) Thanks in advance.

[truthfinder]

​This made me think of a related question. If it is the case that individual body parts have a soul (or are connected to the soul) what is the Roman Catholic view of organ donation or receipt of a donated organ? Perhaps organ donation is not an issue because the organ has been taken from a deceased person, and the person's soul has left their body, leaving nothing of the person's soul in an organ that is donated or received. Have I misunderstood something or does the Roman Catholic Church take a different view? (This issue would, at least at first glance, have the possibility of being more complicated if the organ in question is the head--or maybe not.) Thanks in advance.

​I really don't know.  I have no knowledge at all on this topic, and my initial premise that body parts may have soul could be entirely flawed.  It's not clear either whether if individual parts would be connected to the immortal soul or have a more finite soul akin to animals.  I have ethical concerns regarding organ donation anyways (some organs and some procedures). That being said, JP II did encourage organ donation iirc.

[veritasluxmea]

Ugh. There isn't really any evidence that "body memories" are a thing- it's very sketchy actually. In a sentence, "The idea is pseudoscientific as there are no hypothesized means by which tissues other than the brain are capable of storing memories." (via wikipedia)

I don't think head transplants would be intrinsically evil? what if, say, someone passed away at a young age (let's go with 20) of brain trauma. They donate their undamaged body to someone around the same age who is paralyzed from the neck down so they are able to live a better and longer life. Honestly, I see it as a type of organ donation. Assuming you're doing it for the right reasons and have the kinks (autoimmune rejection, more financially feasible, reliable spine fusion surgery) worked out, hypothetically speaking it could be really beneficial to children and teens with muscular disabilities. Yes, I know in real life it doesn't quite work out that way- but that's no reason to say it's intrinsically evil. 

[Nihil Obstat]

Simply on a philosophical level, since humans are a union of body and soul that does entail that identity is at least partially linked to the body. At the same time obviously the brain and head are a part of the body, and seems to be central to it in a vital sense. 

So I think other parts of the body, while perhaps not an essential part of the continuity of identity, do constitute a part of our human nature in a more metaphysical sense. 

I would also be willing to argue that even if it is separated, parts of your body are in some sense still yours, with reference to the resurrection of our glorified bodies. So the patient in this head transplant does not exactly have a new body, but rather had a large part of someone else's.

[CatherineM]

If the eyes are the window to the soul, it should be in the brain.  The whole thing is silly in my opinion.  I don't think the science is close to being there yet, and considering how many hoops had to be gone through to do hand and/or facial transplant, I can't see it being approved anytime soon. 

[Ice_nine]

  I have ethical concerns regarding organ donation anyways (some organs and some procedures). That being said, JP II did encourage organ donation iirc.

​what concerns if you don't mind me asking?

 

also, a question for the room, if we're on a desert island and we're starving can I amputate my arm and eat it? Is that morally unethical? We gonna die if we don't eat something and I can definitely handle life without my left arm.

[truthfinder]

​what concerns if you don't mind me asking?

 

also, a question for the room, if we're on a desert island and we're starving can I amputate my arm and eat it? Is that morally unethical? We gonna die if we don't eat something and I can definitely handle life without my left arm.

​There are some transplants which seem to be done when the person isn't actually dead, hearts seem to particularly fall in this category (or the rush for some surgeons to urge a family to pull the plug because the have someone lined up needing an organ).  I don't have problems with organs that people can give when they can survive with one (lung, kidney, liver).  

I think it would be unethical to cut off your arm - we can't sin even to bring about a good - and in my book this would be self-mutilation.  You could eat someone else's arm though (if they had died and you hadn't killed them). 

[Nihil Obstat]

​There are some transplants which seem to be done when the person isn't actually dead, hearts seem to particularly fall in this category (or the rush for some surgeons to urge a family to pull the plug because the have someone lined up needing an organ).  

​In terms of the economics of health, they would call that a perverse incentive. Similar incentives definitely manifest in other areas of health care, for instance the reality of physician-induced-demand. Unfortunately people turn that into an emotional issue, and get offended that economists also consider doctors to be working in their own best interests.