Homosexuality disordered/if you speak a foreign language please read this

[Gabriela]

Nice way to defuse the tension, dude.

[veritasluxmea]

Lilllabettt,

Please read James 2:15-16:

"If a brother or sister has nothing to wear and no food for the day and you say 'Good-bye and good luck!  Keep warm and well fed' but do not meet their bodily needs, what good is that"?

Instead of rubbing salt in Camel's wounds, why don't you act as balm for his wounds by offering yourself up as a spouse (assuming Camel is a male)?

​I don't know if I should be amused or disturbed... 

[Aragon]

 

​Hi Aragon, God bless and Happy Easter. 

My intention is not to be passive aggressive. I have chosen my tone very intentionally. 

Peace and joy are nice. But I am speaking to someone who has admitted to being deeply troubled in the context of Church teaching for a long time. The Church's teaching will not change and human sexuality is relatively stable. There is a distinct possibility that this person's future discipleship will involve more sacrifice and suffering than joy and peace. For some people Good Friday lasts their entire lives.  And yet whatever formation and "evangelizing" this individual has received has left him unprepared for this. He thinks that

Well. Authentic religion is an act of intellectual humility, a confession that something outside oneself is true. Radical renunciation of self makes sense if what I believe is true. There are religions that have the removal of pain as a goal. Buddhism. But even authentic Buddhism demands radical renunciation in the service of the truth, regardless of whether or not one is destined in this life to achieve the cessation of suffering. 

The Christian approach to suffering is central to its self-understanding, and that is that suffering does not go away.  For some people it is the dominant force in their lives, for their entire lives. For some people God does not "fill the void." Jesus Himself says those people should count themselves blessed. "Evangelists" like to skip over that part. "Do x,y,z, believe like this, consider this, peace will come." Well, maybe it won't. 

For lots of people it doesn't, in one serious area or another. They discover they or someone they love is gay. Or they can only conceive with IVF. Or they are divorced at 25 and denied an annulment. Or are abused by a priest. That's when the test comes, and how do we expect people to do, when they have heard this weird prefab Peace Like a River counterfeit version of Christianity all their lives. Well, I'm not selling that bill of goods. 

If it is true, it is 100% worth it. Living in accord with conscience is the only worthwhile way to live.  If it is not true, it is not worth it. It's an awful waste. 

 

 

​Yes, all very true. Probably something I need to remember as well. Happy Easter (if you've reached Sunday over in the States)!

[Aragon]

So maybe a follow up question.

If having the homosexual inclination isn't a sin in itself, but it's still "objectively disordered" then what are we to think of people who have this objectively disordered inclination but choose to live chastely according to the teachings of the Church?

[puellapaschalis]

So maybe a follow up question.

If having the homosexual inclination isn't a sin in itself, but it's still "objectively disordered" then what are we to think of people who have this objectively disordered inclination but choose to live chastely according to the teachings of the Church?

​Like everyone else who suffers from a particular temptation or another and is trying to do their best: I wish they'd breathe quieter in Mass as they annoy the gloggings out of me. By which I mean that everyone is (or ought to be) in that position.

[Nihil Obstat]

So maybe a follow up question.

If having the homosexual inclination isn't a sin in itself, but it's still "objectively disordered" then what are we to think of people who have this objectively disordered inclination but choose to live chastely according to the teachings of the Church?

​Everyone is called to live chastely, gay or not. It is simply that for those Catholics who identify as homosexual with that objectively disordered inclination, they are not permitted to act in the way they would prefer, sexually speaking. And those who do so should be commended for their virtue. As should anyone else who lives chastely. The challenges faced by a person with homosexual attraction are perhaps somewhat unusual, but every state in life and every particular circumstance presents its own temptations and challenges. 

[Winchester]

Lilllabettt,

Please read James 2:15-16:

"If a brother or sister has nothing to wear and no food for the day and you say 'Good-bye and good luck!  Keep warm and well fed' but do not meet their bodily needs, what good is that"?

Instead of rubbing salt in Camel's wounds, why don't you act as balm for his wounds by offering yourself up as a spouse (assuming Camel is a male)?

​This is how people end up in crime re-creation shows.

Edited April 6, 2015 by Winchester

[Didacus]

French - Cette propension, objectivement désordonnée, constitue pour la plupart d’entre eux une épreuve

 

The French meaning and connotation is very similar.

 

And I don't think it is too strongly said - I believe it is actually very precise, in both English and French.

[superblue]

pft meanings of words across the world, kind of like flipping people off here in the states. Flipping the bird in the states means one thing, go to another part of the world and it means nothing.

A Long time ago, in a galaxy far far away, the word flower use to mean a bundle of sticks or a smoke, and the word Gay use to mean happy, but now if one were to use those two words in todays world...So no one can have a gay ole time any more, and don't ask anyone for a flower to go along with your cup of coffee or you will tarred and feathered. And the rainbow use to be a type of metaphor of Gods' promise or sign to not strike the world with another flood.

this has to be the umpteenth thread on homosexuals in general on here. It just must be fun to debate in general I guess.

Bazinga

[Nihil Obstat]

pft meanings of words across the world, kind of like flipping people off here in the states. Flipping the bird in the states means one thing, go to another part of the world and it means nothing.

​In Canada it is a very polite gesture that works as a greeting or a friendly acknowledgement. I highly recommend you get into the habit of using it regularly and with great gusto.

[CrossCuT]

I drift further and further away from the church every time I read the comments of the CM's on issues like this. 

[Nihil Obstat]

I drift further and further away from the church every time I read the comments of the CM's on issues like this. 

We do not get to choose to follow some teachings and reject others. Sometimes truth is unpleasant.

[Ash Wednesday]

I drift further and further away from the church every time I read the comments of the CM's on issues like this. 

​You often take these vague shots at Church Militants but you rarely elaborate on what it is you expect them to say. And it isn't particularly constructive for anyone. Is it Church doctrine that bothers you in itself, or the way people discuss it?

[Aragon]

French - Cette propension, objectivement désordonnée, constitue pour la plupart d’entre eux une épreuve

 

The French meaning and connotation is very similar.

 

And I don't think it is too strongly said - I believe it is actually very precise, in both English and French.

​Does it really? I had a French friend tell me it meant messy or unorganised rather than sick. That's terrible if it has the same psychological connotations in other languages as it does in English.

How disgusting that the authors of the catechism didn't think about how hurtful words and terms that pathologise those with SSA and paint them as ill would be to people - those who identify as gay, those who are Catholic and striving to be chaste, and their loved ones. Truly hurtful language. My disillusionment with this Church grows day by day. 

[KnightofChrist]

​Does it really? I had a French friend tell me it meant messy or unorganised rather than sick. That's terrible if it has the same psychological connotations in other languages as it does in English.

How disgusting that the authors of the catechism didn't think about how hurtful words and terms that pathologise those with SSA and paint them as ill would be to people - those who identify as gay, those who are Catholic and striving to be chaste, and their loved ones. Truly hurtful language. My disillusionment with this Church grows day by day. 

​IF is the key word here as well as a red flag, I heard so and so say... is also a red flag. If you don't really know what the word means in French then why make such bold judgements against the writers of the Catechism?